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I think that we are at the point of - everyone that likes electric cars already has one. And it neads a leap up in usability or leap down in price. From 1Up is

I think that we are at the point of - everyone that likes electric cars already has one. And it neads a leap up in usability or leap down in price. From 1Up is strictly urban car, and the ID.x are tok damn expensive.

bravetraveler 3y ago
It's going to take a majority of used ICE vehicles to reach disarray before I get an EV! It's not even that I'm against them specifically. Look at new ICE cars, useless features and upsells. EVs are doing that but taking it to another degree. Like with any new thing, terms change I can't help but think Car 2.0 is going to continue down this rent seeking/nearly hostile pattern I'd rather fall back to a rusted beater than buy one of these, under these terms. Someone makes a mostly low-tech EV? I may be interested
- rudolph9 3y ago
  I’m in your boat. I’m tempted to buy a cyber truck and could probably accumulate the capital when I come up on the reservation list next year but the idea that I’m being tracked and I don’t “own” all the features in the car is really off putting to me. The ford lighting generally seems to be better in this regard but offer me the base model with longer range. I’m a big diy guy and I’m going to end up beating up a lot and I just want minimal features. For now I now I’ll stick with my 1996 K1500 6.5L diesel with 300k miles. It will probably run until I’m dead if I keep up basic maintenance.
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    The owning thing you talk about is it, for me. We're paying dozens of thousands of dollars for these things. They need to be serviceable, durable, and generally utilitarian. Especially with the common squeeze getting ever-tighter. The average consumer may not care and permit the EVs to take away what used to be expected... but I'm not having it.
- fwungy 3y ago
  Useless features required by federal regulations . There are all kinds of affordable, simple, proven private cars running decades old tech available in other countries, from Ladas to Land Cruisers.
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    Not all of my complaints originate with regulation but many surely do. A decent example of one I think is free/clear is OEM weight reduction. Pay more for them to do/include less. The argument is that it's for performance, but we're talking maybe a couple dozen pounds. Anyone buying that is the fool we heard about and their money.
userinanother 3y ago
The cars are fine the infrastructure is sorely lacking even with Tesla chargers. We’re a decade out on infrastructure maybe more
- ulfw 3y ago
  And we haven't solved the "I am not rich enough to own my own damn house with garage/carport" issue. Few apartments/HOA allow EV charging installation, even fewer have it for renters and even the power distribution isn't often there to power up a whole garage with EVs. A few cars maybe, but what if 50% or more are EVs?
dsr_ 3y ago
It's the price. The base Toyota Camry is $26k, the hybrid starts at 36k and there is no all-electric. At 10,000 miles a year and $4 a gallon, the base costs $1600/y in gas and the hybrid costs $1000, so you need to keep the cars 15 years to make the hybrid break even.
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  It is also inconvenience of charging. The fact that I need to waste an hour on a charger instead of being filled up in 5 minutes like with ICE. And most of people are not going to charge at home. 50% of people in EU live in an apartment and in USA charging will be killed by HOA.
  - mikestew 3y ago
    I'd like to see the HOA contract that specifies what I can put into the interior of my garage, such as a charger.
    - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
      yeah, but driveway charging is DoA with HOA
      - mikestew 3y ago
        That's demonstrably not true in all cases. I see driveway charging in front of multi-million dollar houses that I know full well have HOAs. Now, it very well could be that it's not enforced, but I see it regularly. (Redmond, WA, if that matters to anyone.) And I'll ignore that the goalposts suddenly moved.
        TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        You can ignore what you want, but HOA won't ignore you.

bravetraveler 3y ago

It's going to take a majority of used ICE vehicles to reach disarray before I get an EV! It's not even that I'm against them specifically. Look at new ICE cars, useless features and upsells. EVs are doing that but taking it to another degree. Like with any new thing, terms change I can't help but think Car 2.0 is going to continue down this rent seeking/nearly hostile pattern I'd rather fall back to a rusted beater than buy one of these, under these terms. Someone makes a mostly low-tech EV? I may be interested

rudolph9 3y ago
I’m in your boat. I’m tempted to buy a cyber truck and could probably accumulate the capital when I come up on the reservation list next year but the idea that I’m being tracked and I don’t “own” all the features in the car is really off putting to me. The ford lighting generally seems to be better in this regard but offer me the base model with longer range. I’m a big diy guy and I’m going to end up beating up a lot and I just want minimal features. For now I now I’ll stick with my 1996 K1500 6.5L diesel with 300k miles. It will probably run until I’m dead if I keep up basic maintenance.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  The owning thing you talk about is it, for me. We're paying dozens of thousands of dollars for these things. They need to be serviceable, durable, and generally utilitarian. Especially with the common squeeze getting ever-tighter. The average consumer may not care and permit the EVs to take away what used to be expected... but I'm not having it.
fwungy 3y ago
Useless features required by federal regulations . There are all kinds of affordable, simple, proven private cars running decades old tech available in other countries, from Ladas to Land Cruisers.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  Not all of my complaints originate with regulation but many surely do. A decent example of one I think is free/clear is OEM weight reduction. Pay more for them to do/include less. The argument is that it's for performance, but we're talking maybe a couple dozen pounds. Anyone buying that is the fool we heard about and their money.

userinanother 3y ago

The cars are fine the infrastructure is sorely lacking even with Tesla chargers. We’re a decade out on infrastructure maybe more

ulfw 3y ago
And we haven't solved the "I am not rich enough to own my own damn house with garage/carport" issue. Few apartments/HOA allow EV charging installation, even fewer have it for renters and even the power distribution isn't often there to power up a whole garage with EVs. A few cars maybe, but what if 50% or more are EVs?

dsr_ 3y ago

It's the price. The base Toyota Camry is $26k, the hybrid starts at 36k and there is no all-electric. At 10,000 miles a year and $4 a gallon, the base costs $1600/y in gas and the hybrid costs $1000, so you need to keep the cars 15 years to make the hybrid break even.

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
It is also inconvenience of charging. The fact that I need to waste an hour on a charger instead of being filled up in 5 minutes like with ICE. And most of people are not going to charge at home. 50% of people in EU live in an apartment and in USA charging will be killed by HOA.
- mikestew 3y ago
  I'd like to see the HOA contract that specifies what I can put into the interior of my garage, such as a charger.
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    yeah, but driveway charging is DoA with HOA
    - mikestew 3y ago
      That's demonstrably not true in all cases. I see driveway charging in front of multi-million dollar houses that I know full well have HOAs. Now, it very well could be that it's not enforced, but I see it regularly. (Redmond, WA, if that matters to anyone.) And I'll ignore that the goalposts suddenly moved.
      - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
        You can ignore what you want, but HOA won't ignore you.