5 ms·

Seems to be a colour display, probably also with high refresh rate. Can I please have an ebook-grade (~1Hz grayscale) eInk display for a lower price?

rendaw 3y ago
I don't see any mention of refresh rate there. Since it's signage, I could imagine lower refresh rates, but if it's commercial maybe they do have high refresh rate requirements?
- Aaargh20318 3y ago
  For personal use as a photo frame I couldn't care less about refresh rate, even if it was 5 minutes to replace the image. As long as the resolution and color space are good enough to display photos. I'd love to have a few of these in my home and then have them change the photo each night. Much easier than changing out prints of my photos.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Resolution is respectable it seems, roughly 3k 画面解像度 3200×1800 Not quite UHD, but more than HD.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    And for me, dreaming of lo-fi paper-like (no animation, no unnecessary display elements, humble palette, no light emission) working and studying experience, the refresh time has to fit under 1 second (ideally somewhat higher, at least for partial updates, but 10Hz will be more than enough) and the colour space is irrelevant. I'd love either a palletre of 4-8 slightly-grayish (like I've seen on some eBooks) colours or just a good grayscale. Even a simple black-white would do.
    - Aaargh20318 3y ago
      That sounds exactly like e-paper devices that already exist. Something like a Kindle Scribe.
      - dredmorbius 3y ago
        This. Such devices have been on the market for years. I've owned an Onyx BOOX Max Lumi (13.3" e-ink Android tablet) for nearly 3 years now. Monochrome 16-shade greyscale (with dithering for better presentation of images). It's excellent for reading straight text, line drawings, and most webpages, though a pagination-based navigation is much preferable to scrolling. Refresh is ~8--16 Hz, though that varies by display mode. It's possible to view video on the device, though you'd generally prefer not to. Animations are generally annoying A.F.
    - awiesenhofer 3y ago
      What you describe already exists in multiple ereaders and eink tablets. Check out Bigme or Onyx Boox tablets or displays, they come in all sizes, some with color some bw, and their tablets run pretty much standard Android. Great for studying, etc.
      - qwerty456127 3y ago
        I don't want Android, I want a real desktop OS and at least 15″ display. As for e-books, of course I have one and use it to read books. But I also want to use e-ink for everything else I normally do on a computer (I mostly do it slowly so low refresh rate is Ok), including full-featured window management.
        Aaargh20318 3y ago
        e-paper monitors do exist, for example: https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-curved-e-ink-monitor-paperlike-253-u https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-curved-e-ink-mo...
  - hattmall 3y ago
    You know, that almost sounds like a printer. Like what if a print head could hide in a frame. Move up/down and across whole printing, and if it weren't on some sort of reusable surface, like a dry erase board. Higher power requirement of course but would be really cool for art.
    - neilv 3y ago
      Maybe like cafes that have an artist (sometimes doubling as a barista) do their interior signage by hand, sometimes in chalk on blackboard, or in neon marker... one could rig up something like an X-Y flatbed pen plotter, with additional axes for chalk/pen angle. That's great for a one-off enthusiast project, and make a blog post and video about it. Or, if it's instead tech industry SOP: Tie it into a subscription cloud service for updating the signs (initially free), with a tablet UI for the independent cafe manager, and enterprise management dashboard for chains of cafes with mass-produced homey feel, and also run display ads for whatever revenue, and spy on all the business's data that goes through it, to sell the surveillance data to whomever will pay. Back to the original inspiration: maybe the artist enjoys drawing the signs, and can do it in a more appealing, humanized, genuine way, so automating it would be counterproductive, at least for independent cafes.
      - Forgeties79 3y ago
        I both love and hate this comment so much lol
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      > Like what if a print head could hide in a frame. Move up/down and across whole printing, and if it weren't on some sort of reusable surface, like a dry erase board. You know, that almost sounds like eInk ;)
manxman 3y ago
Their product page is pretty much what’s on the market at present https://www.eink.com/ https://www.eink.com/
- mrd3v0 3y ago
  Because they are massive parent trolls who sue and prevent competition. They need to be called out whenever the technology is mentioned.
  - braunboffel 3y ago
    > Because they are massive parent trolls who sue and prevent competition. They need to be called out whenever the technology is mentioned. Where? How? Please share some evidence so that your claims can be verified.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    Thank goodness you’re here to do that!
  - criddell 3y ago
    Every eink thread states this without any specifics. Calling them patent trolls seems especially weird since since the Eink company actually produces a lot of stuff.
    - ilyt 3y ago
      While "patent troll" might be inaccurate they pretty much stifled the technology development for a decade
      - zen928 3y ago
        Calling companies that hold a patent you find valuable and aren't distributing it's use how you personally see fit a "patent troll" isn't just inaccurate, it's an intentional mischaracterization for the purpose of eliciting a negative emotional response solely to spread your narrative. It cheapens the meaning and lowers any engagement to fight for the same cause when you realize it's a facade driven entirely by sour grapes and a lack of understanding of the patent system being criticized. I guess it's okay here though, because [passionate story about side project idea using eink that could be tinkered on but never actually idealized into something].
lwhi 3y ago
E-ink displays generally have a terrible refresh rate.
scythe 3y ago
I would be interested a display with limited/semantic UI coloring (two pixel colors, not necessarily saturated). That would be enough for syntax highlighting and similar features. But it seems like the designers expect true color to be close enough on the horizon that partial solutions are not worth it.
lhl 3y ago
The ACeP signage displays usually have a 30s refresh rate. There are Gallery 3 ebook devices which promise ~1s color refresh, but so far only one has come out (and it wasn't very good). That being said, if you don't need a lot of color, the Kaleido 3 eink devices are very good and very fast. I've had a color Boox device for the past year (with their GPU-driven refresh technology) and it's quite zippy on the refreshes. The color is filter-based, so not so vibrant, but it's great for highlighting (looks sort of like newsprint in terms of color and sharpness) and for me, is "enough" color w/o giving up anything.

rendaw 3y ago

I don't see any mention of refresh rate there. Since it's signage, I could imagine lower refresh rates, but if it's commercial maybe they do have high refresh rate requirements?

Aaargh20318 3y ago
For personal use as a photo frame I couldn't care less about refresh rate, even if it was 5 minutes to replace the image. As long as the resolution and color space are good enough to display photos. I'd love to have a few of these in my home and then have them change the photo each night. Much easier than changing out prints of my photos.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Resolution is respectable it seems, roughly 3k 画面解像度 3200×1800 Not quite UHD, but more than HD.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  And for me, dreaming of lo-fi paper-like (no animation, no unnecessary display elements, humble palette, no light emission) working and studying experience, the refresh time has to fit under 1 second (ideally somewhat higher, at least for partial updates, but 10Hz will be more than enough) and the colour space is irrelevant. I'd love either a palletre of 4-8 slightly-grayish (like I've seen on some eBooks) colours or just a good grayscale. Even a simple black-white would do.
  - Aaargh20318 3y ago
    That sounds exactly like e-paper devices that already exist. Something like a Kindle Scribe.
    - dredmorbius 3y ago
      This. Such devices have been on the market for years. I've owned an Onyx BOOX Max Lumi (13.3" e-ink Android tablet) for nearly 3 years now. Monochrome 16-shade greyscale (with dithering for better presentation of images). It's excellent for reading straight text, line drawings, and most webpages, though a pagination-based navigation is much preferable to scrolling. Refresh is ~8--16 Hz, though that varies by display mode. It's possible to view video on the device, though you'd generally prefer not to. Animations are generally annoying A.F.
  - awiesenhofer 3y ago
    What you describe already exists in multiple ereaders and eink tablets. Check out Bigme or Onyx Boox tablets or displays, they come in all sizes, some with color some bw, and their tablets run pretty much standard Android. Great for studying, etc.
    - qwerty456127 3y ago
      I don't want Android, I want a real desktop OS and at least 15″ display. As for e-books, of course I have one and use it to read books. But I also want to use e-ink for everything else I normally do on a computer (I mostly do it slowly so low refresh rate is Ok), including full-featured window management.
      - Aaargh20318 3y ago
        e-paper monitors do exist, for example: https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-curved-e-ink-monitor-paperlike-253-u https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-curved-e-ink-mo...
- hattmall 3y ago
  You know, that almost sounds like a printer. Like what if a print head could hide in a frame. Move up/down and across whole printing, and if it weren't on some sort of reusable surface, like a dry erase board. Higher power requirement of course but would be really cool for art.
  - neilv 3y ago
    Maybe like cafes that have an artist (sometimes doubling as a barista) do their interior signage by hand, sometimes in chalk on blackboard, or in neon marker... one could rig up something like an X-Y flatbed pen plotter, with additional axes for chalk/pen angle. That's great for a one-off enthusiast project, and make a blog post and video about it. Or, if it's instead tech industry SOP: Tie it into a subscription cloud service for updating the signs (initially free), with a tablet UI for the independent cafe manager, and enterprise management dashboard for chains of cafes with mass-produced homey feel, and also run display ads for whatever revenue, and spy on all the business's data that goes through it, to sell the surveillance data to whomever will pay. Back to the original inspiration: maybe the artist enjoys drawing the signs, and can do it in a more appealing, humanized, genuine way, so automating it would be counterproductive, at least for independent cafes.
    - Forgeties79 3y ago
      I both love and hate this comment so much lol
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    > Like what if a print head could hide in a frame. Move up/down and across whole printing, and if it weren't on some sort of reusable surface, like a dry erase board. You know, that almost sounds like eInk ;)

manxman 3y ago

Their product page is pretty much what’s on the market at present https://www.eink.com/ https://www.eink.com/

mrd3v0 3y ago
Because they are massive parent trolls who sue and prevent competition. They need to be called out whenever the technology is mentioned.
- braunboffel 3y ago
  > Because they are massive parent trolls who sue and prevent competition. They need to be called out whenever the technology is mentioned. Where? How? Please share some evidence so that your claims can be verified.
- fortran77 3y ago
  Thank goodness you’re here to do that!
- criddell 3y ago
  Every eink thread states this without any specifics. Calling them patent trolls seems especially weird since since the Eink company actually produces a lot of stuff.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    While "patent troll" might be inaccurate they pretty much stifled the technology development for a decade
    - zen928 3y ago
      Calling companies that hold a patent you find valuable and aren't distributing it's use how you personally see fit a "patent troll" isn't just inaccurate, it's an intentional mischaracterization for the purpose of eliciting a negative emotional response solely to spread your narrative. It cheapens the meaning and lowers any engagement to fight for the same cause when you realize it's a facade driven entirely by sour grapes and a lack of understanding of the patent system being criticized. I guess it's okay here though, because [passionate story about side project idea using eink that could be tinkered on but never actually idealized into something].

lwhi 3y ago

E-ink displays generally have a terrible refresh rate.

scythe 3y ago

I would be interested a display with limited/semantic UI coloring (two pixel colors, not necessarily saturated). That would be enough for syntax highlighting and similar features. But it seems like the designers expect true color to be close enough on the horizon that partial solutions are not worth it.

lhl 3y ago

The ACeP signage displays usually have a 30s refresh rate. There are Gallery 3 ebook devices which promise ~1s color refresh, but so far only one has come out (and it wasn't very good). That being said, if you don't need a lot of color, the Kaleido 3 eink devices are very good and very fast. I've had a color Boox device for the past year (with their GPU-driven refresh technology) and it's quite zippy on the refreshes. The color is filter-based, so not so vibrant, but it's great for highlighting (looks sort of like newsprint in terms of color and sharpness) and for me, is "enough" color w/o giving up anything.