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I appreciate the effort but can't help feeling the app trivializes and infantilizes the issue of 'social anxiety' with it's one-size-fits-all approach. There ma

I appreciate the effort but can't help feeling the app trivializes and infantilizes the issue of 'social anxiety' with it's one-size-fits-all approach. There may be many reasons a person has social anxiety. Maybe they were severely abused and learned to be fearful of people. Maybe they have autism and find themselves anxious trying to communicate with neurotypical people. Maybe they're just... shy and haven't been in the world enough. We really don't know what the issue is and I do think the context matters if you're trying to help. Apps like this are asking for trouble because rather than having people invest in an approach that may work (like a clinical psychologist) they try something like this and end up coming away feeling alone and let down. Maybe now the person won't bother to seek real help because they feel it will be more of the same. I think if you're going to venture into ad hoc mental health treatment you ought to know what you're doing. And I can't say I think the author does here.

throwhn84383 3y ago
I fully agree, also on the practical side it's likely there are rational reasons why not to do a certain activity. E.g. about sharing a side project, maybe the person cannot really stand up for an idea, in fact it might be hard to explain without the right context and would stop the project despite being doable. Life isn't a computer game anyway...
rocketbop 3y ago
I share your concern about using an app to deal with a psychological problem, but I think a counterpoint to your concern about this app being one-size-fits-all is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. The central premise of CBT is that it doesn't really matter what the roots of the behaviour a patient wants to change are. Reprogramming our behaviours is enough. This is really the opposite of the old Freudian ideas that a therapist must get to the root of the problem (which might have been in childhood) before progress can be made on the neurosis. Perhaps the author here is approaching social anxiety from the CBT perspective.
- jon-wood 3y ago
  > I think a counterpoint to your concern about this app being one-size-fits-all is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy CBT is absolutely a one-size-fits-all solution though, and in my opinion quite harmful in many ways. The core premise of CBT is more or less "it's all in your head". I'm sure for some people it is, but for many (myself included when I tried it), it is absolutely not all something I could just handwave away with positive thinking. CBT comes down to just sucking it up and accepting your place in life, when for many people it's that very place in life that is destroying their mental health and the right thing to do isn't to suck it up, it's to make concrete changes to their life and get out of that situation. However, CBT is cheap to provide, so is the darling of health systems the world over. Just do some colouring in while thinking about how great life is really folks, the world burning around you is keeping you warm.
  - afro88 3y ago
    It's a one size fits all approach sure, but only for cases where it's your thinking that is causing the negative state you're in. A state that has left you helpless or otherwise unable to help yourself get out of it. CBT is about establishing new constructive thought patterns that break that cycle. Condescending those that need this kind of tool to improve their mental health is unnecessary. You might not have been in that kind of state (thoughts spiraling deeper and deeper into self loathing and depression for example), and it genuinely was just external circumstances that you needed to change.
    - jon-wood 3y ago
      Apologies, my intent wasn’t to have a go at people who CBT genuinely helps, I’m sure it’s very effective in many cases otherwise it wouldn’t be such a big thing. I’m projecting my general frustration at the world onto it to an excessive degree.
  - jodrellblank 3y ago
    I've listened to dozens of hours of Dr David Burns' Feeling Good Podcast[1] about CBT, he's in his late 70s and was one of the pioneers of it. I tend to come away thinking of it as a panacea and have to remind myself that diseases are complex and multifactorial and treatments won't work for everyone ... Then you say "The core premise of CBT is more or less "it's all in your head" [...] it is absolutely not all something I could just handwave away with positive thinking." which is insultingly misrepresenting it, like grandpa disparaging everyone who works on computers in any capacity because "playing computer games all day isn't a real job". It's nothing to do with handwaving things away, it's not positive thinking, it's not "just" any one trivial idea, and it doesn't come down to sucking anything up or accepting 'your place' (unless that means a terminal disease diagnosis, perhaps). It's as involved, interesting as debugging software - debugging how and why your thoughts generate your feelings - and you don't debug software by handwaving the bugs away or accepting that you will be stuck with broken software forever. There's counter-examples to your claim through the podcast: people who have been helped to get jobs or promotions, to be more effective or less stressed at work, to improve and rebuild their relationships with partners, friends, estranged parents. There's no colouring-in involved and Dr Burns is constantly banging the drum that patients must be tested at the start and end of every session to self-report their feelings in different areas to make sure they are improving because it's too common over the industry for patients to 'suddenly' leave after weeks and weeks of treatment saying "this hasn't helped me at all!" but when it's working well, patients will self-report significant improvements in very few sessions, and if they aren't, change something. [1] https://feelinggood.com/ https://feelinggood.com/ - podcast menu, at the top.
tolarewaju3 3y ago
First of all, thanks so much for your feedback. You have a fair point that I'll have to consider while building. And while I agree that the reasons for Social Anxiety may differ, I've found that there is one common root: an extreme desire for approval. This drives the anxiety. When we want others' approval so bad, we become anxious when thinking about losing it. This fear becomes a discouraging spiral. Fear of what you think --> Running from opportunities & ruin my life --> Regret & feel more discouraged And it starts over again. Social Anxiety is discouraging. And so, to combat this, we need encouragement to take even the smallest step. You have no idea how many people I've talked to who were so happy to just be able say hello to someone. Encouragement is the lifeblood of overcoming Social Anxiety. Ultimately, I'm trying to create a success spiral. Take a small step --> Celebrate / track your win / see growth --> Get encouraged to take a bigger step Little by little, this rewires us to let go of people's approval and live fulfilling lives. I am not a therapist. But I have struggled with Social Anxiety for most of my life and have been involved with helping that community for years now too. This game is also one I've played for the past 7 years -- and it's helped me grow. Some people may need a therapist. Others need a personal encourager

throwhn84383 3y ago

I fully agree, also on the practical side it's likely there are rational reasons why not to do a certain activity. E.g. about sharing a side project, maybe the person cannot really stand up for an idea, in fact it might be hard to explain without the right context and would stop the project despite being doable. Life isn't a computer game anyway...

rocketbop 3y ago

I share your concern about using an app to deal with a psychological problem, but I think a counterpoint to your concern about this app being one-size-fits-all is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. The central premise of CBT is that it doesn't really matter what the roots of the behaviour a patient wants to change are. Reprogramming our behaviours is enough. This is really the opposite of the old Freudian ideas that a therapist must get to the root of the problem (which might have been in childhood) before progress can be made on the neurosis. Perhaps the author here is approaching social anxiety from the CBT perspective.

jon-wood 3y ago
> I think a counterpoint to your concern about this app being one-size-fits-all is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy CBT is absolutely a one-size-fits-all solution though, and in my opinion quite harmful in many ways. The core premise of CBT is more or less "it's all in your head". I'm sure for some people it is, but for many (myself included when I tried it), it is absolutely not all something I could just handwave away with positive thinking. CBT comes down to just sucking it up and accepting your place in life, when for many people it's that very place in life that is destroying their mental health and the right thing to do isn't to suck it up, it's to make concrete changes to their life and get out of that situation. However, CBT is cheap to provide, so is the darling of health systems the world over. Just do some colouring in while thinking about how great life is really folks, the world burning around you is keeping you warm.
- afro88 3y ago
  It's a one size fits all approach sure, but only for cases where it's your thinking that is causing the negative state you're in. A state that has left you helpless or otherwise unable to help yourself get out of it. CBT is about establishing new constructive thought patterns that break that cycle. Condescending those that need this kind of tool to improve their mental health is unnecessary. You might not have been in that kind of state (thoughts spiraling deeper and deeper into self loathing and depression for example), and it genuinely was just external circumstances that you needed to change.
  - jon-wood 3y ago
    Apologies, my intent wasn’t to have a go at people who CBT genuinely helps, I’m sure it’s very effective in many cases otherwise it wouldn’t be such a big thing. I’m projecting my general frustration at the world onto it to an excessive degree.
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  I've listened to dozens of hours of Dr David Burns' Feeling Good Podcast[1] about CBT, he's in his late 70s and was one of the pioneers of it. I tend to come away thinking of it as a panacea and have to remind myself that diseases are complex and multifactorial and treatments won't work for everyone ... Then you say "The core premise of CBT is more or less "it's all in your head" [...] it is absolutely not all something I could just handwave away with positive thinking." which is insultingly misrepresenting it, like grandpa disparaging everyone who works on computers in any capacity because "playing computer games all day isn't a real job". It's nothing to do with handwaving things away, it's not positive thinking, it's not "just" any one trivial idea, and it doesn't come down to sucking anything up or accepting 'your place' (unless that means a terminal disease diagnosis, perhaps). It's as involved, interesting as debugging software - debugging how and why your thoughts generate your feelings - and you don't debug software by handwaving the bugs away or accepting that you will be stuck with broken software forever. There's counter-examples to your claim through the podcast: people who have been helped to get jobs or promotions, to be more effective or less stressed at work, to improve and rebuild their relationships with partners, friends, estranged parents. There's no colouring-in involved and Dr Burns is constantly banging the drum that patients must be tested at the start and end of every session to self-report their feelings in different areas to make sure they are improving because it's too common over the industry for patients to 'suddenly' leave after weeks and weeks of treatment saying "this hasn't helped me at all!" but when it's working well, patients will self-report significant improvements in very few sessions, and if they aren't, change something. [1] https://feelinggood.com/ https://feelinggood.com/ - podcast menu, at the top.

tolarewaju3 3y ago

First of all, thanks so much for your feedback. You have a fair point that I'll have to consider while building. And while I agree that the reasons for Social Anxiety may differ, I've found that there is one common root: an extreme desire for approval. This drives the anxiety. When we want others' approval so bad, we become anxious when thinking about losing it. This fear becomes a discouraging spiral. Fear of what you think --> Running from opportunities & ruin my life --> Regret & feel more discouraged And it starts over again. Social Anxiety is discouraging. And so, to combat this, we need encouragement to take even the smallest step. You have no idea how many people I've talked to who were so happy to just be able say hello to someone. Encouragement is the lifeblood of overcoming Social Anxiety. Ultimately, I'm trying to create a success spiral. Take a small step --> Celebrate / track your win / see growth --> Get encouraged to take a bigger step Little by little, this rewires us to let go of people's approval and live fulfilling lives. I am not a therapist. But I have struggled with Social Anxiety for most of my life and have been involved with helping that community for years now too. This game is also one I've played for the past 7 years -- and it's helped me grow. Some people may need a therapist. Others need a personal encourager