3 ms·

> I hope this spurs them to switch all employees to use Yubikeys for 2FA. Anything less than FIDO2 is really weak. The session cookies were stolen. 2FA has not

> I hope this spurs them to switch all employees to use Yubikeys for 2FA. Anything less than FIDO2 is really weak. The session cookies were stolen. 2FA has nothing to do with this. > Can someone explain why people still choose Okta? I personally feel way more comfortable using GSuite as an IDP. Okta suffered a pretty terrible breach and, candidly, I hadn't heard great things about their security practices before that. Have you actually used Google Workspace for anything serious? It's one of the least capable IDPs out there, with Okta being one of the most capable. Comparing the two is like comparing a bicycle to a motor bike because they both have two wheels. Frankly, I'm surprised to read anyone on a technical forum recommend Google Workspace as an IDP.

dkobia 3y ago
I’ve used and implemented both. A case can be made for Google Workspace as an IDP if you don’t need all the bells and whistles. It is extremely secure and generally, engineering practices at Google give me much more confidence than Okta. I’ve spent quite a lot of time interacting with Okta support over system issues and frankly that experience does not leave me assured. My sense is that perhaps they’re wrangling software that has grown exponentially in size and complexity as they try to accommodate the myriad use cases.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  I've used and implemented both too. You immediately out grow Google Workspace as an IDP whenever you need to do role based access control, like AWS Session Manager for machine access instead of long lived SSH keys. Which is a pretty major shortcoming for an IDP to have. I'm not suggesting everyone should use Okta either. Frankly I'm not the biggest fan of it myself. But I wouldn't argue it's less secure than Google Workspace when the big G forces you to workaround it's limitations with less secure implementations.
  - spydum 3y ago
    100%, living this for many years. Google IDP is great for a shop who doesnt need elaborate identity needs. It quickly falls apart when trying to manage an enterprise of any complexity. Okta is quite flexible and supports a lot of tech you want (WebAuthN/SCIMv2 provisioners for popular platforms/all the SSO/API integration/workflows), but comes with it's own set of warts and dysfunction (api rate limits, quirky AD integration with anything complicated). Probably any of them would be suitable, if you are comfortable building your own custom tooling AROUND their APIs. Almost none of them will do exactly what you need out of the box.
insanitybit 3y ago
> The session cookies were stolen. 2FA has nothing to do with this. I had replied 5 hours earlier than your post already saying that I understood that. I was just quoting from their report because I think it's interesting. > Have you actually used Google Workspace for anything serious? Yes lol I'd rather not comment on which of the companies I've worked at that used Google as an IDP but you're welcome to speculate - they all have thousands of employees and followed AWS best practices around user/role management. I can say that we used it at the company I founded as well, though.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  I've seen places appear to use Google as an IDP but the reality was that Okta or Active Directory held the actual corporate identity management with a few select developer tooling hooked into a secondary domain hosted in Google Workspace. Those companies appear on the surface to be following best practices but leaver are constantly forgotten about because corporate IT will remove them from AD and nobody will tell "DevOps" (or whoever owns Google Workspace) to remove those same leavers as well. Which obviously then creates significant risk. Often these places end up with two domains because working with Corporate IT is painful for agile development scrums. But the issue there is company culture, not the IDP. I'm yet to see anyone use Google Workspace effectively at enterprise scale (startups, sure. But startups optimise for speed of development, not long term scalability).

dkobia 3y ago

I’ve used and implemented both. A case can be made for Google Workspace as an IDP if you don’t need all the bells and whistles. It is extremely secure and generally, engineering practices at Google give me much more confidence than Okta. I’ve spent quite a lot of time interacting with Okta support over system issues and frankly that experience does not leave me assured. My sense is that perhaps they’re wrangling software that has grown exponentially in size and complexity as they try to accommodate the myriad use cases.

hnlmorg 3y ago
I've used and implemented both too. You immediately out grow Google Workspace as an IDP whenever you need to do role based access control, like AWS Session Manager for machine access instead of long lived SSH keys. Which is a pretty major shortcoming for an IDP to have. I'm not suggesting everyone should use Okta either. Frankly I'm not the biggest fan of it myself. But I wouldn't argue it's less secure than Google Workspace when the big G forces you to workaround it's limitations with less secure implementations.
- spydum 3y ago
  100%, living this for many years. Google IDP is great for a shop who doesnt need elaborate identity needs. It quickly falls apart when trying to manage an enterprise of any complexity. Okta is quite flexible and supports a lot of tech you want (WebAuthN/SCIMv2 provisioners for popular platforms/all the SSO/API integration/workflows), but comes with it's own set of warts and dysfunction (api rate limits, quirky AD integration with anything complicated). Probably any of them would be suitable, if you are comfortable building your own custom tooling AROUND their APIs. Almost none of them will do exactly what you need out of the box.

insanitybit 3y ago

> The session cookies were stolen. 2FA has nothing to do with this. I had replied 5 hours earlier than your post already saying that I understood that. I was just quoting from their report because I think it's interesting. > Have you actually used Google Workspace for anything serious? Yes lol I'd rather not comment on which of the companies I've worked at that used Google as an IDP but you're welcome to speculate - they all have thousands of employees and followed AWS best practices around user/role management. I can say that we used it at the company I founded as well, though.

hnlmorg 3y ago
I've seen places appear to use Google as an IDP but the reality was that Okta or Active Directory held the actual corporate identity management with a few select developer tooling hooked into a secondary domain hosted in Google Workspace. Those companies appear on the surface to be following best practices but leaver are constantly forgotten about because corporate IT will remove them from AD and nobody will tell "DevOps" (or whoever owns Google Workspace) to remove those same leavers as well. Which obviously then creates significant risk. Often these places end up with two domains because working with Corporate IT is painful for agile development scrums. But the issue there is company culture, not the IDP. I'm yet to see anyone use Google Workspace effectively at enterprise scale (startups, sure. But startups optimise for speed of development, not long term scalability).