5 ms·

I really think Intel will be hard to displace on the desktop. There is a very low tolerance for incompatibility and ARM, whilst great in controlled environment

I really think Intel will be hard to displace on the desktop. There is a very low tolerance for incompatibility and ARM, whilst great in controlled environments, just cannot compete with Intel architecture in compatibility.

outside1234 3y ago
Plus Microsoft is not super invested in making ARM shine like Apple is
- StressedDev 3y ago
  I am not sure where you got that from. Windows runs great on ARM. I got one the Windows Dev Kit 2023 (it's an 8 core ARM PC with 32 GB of RAM, 512 GB SSD). I ran run Windows, Office, Visual Studio, GIT, etc. I suspect a lot of games will not run but everything else works fine. This includes x64 (x86 64-bit software). Also, MS has made a lot of their software ARM compatible. Office 365, Visual Studio, and Visual Studio code all have native ARM binaries. In Visual Studio's case, it has fewer features than the x64 version (mostly fewer supported SDKs). Overall, I can't tell I am even running on an ARM system because it feels like an x64 system. It is responsive, fast and just works.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - rilut 3y ago
    How is your experience with printers?
    - TreeInBuxton 3y ago
      HP's SUPD has support for ARM-based platforms, which I have found to work well on the more modern printers I have tried
  - AnthonyMouse 3y ago
    Microsoft has a history of trying to use architecture transitions as an excuse to lock down the platform. But when both of the architectures are still available, that puts the newer architecture at a competitive disadvantage.
  - kogepathic 3y ago
    > Windows runs great on ARM. I got one the Windows Dev Kit 2023 (it's an 8 core ARM PC with 32 GB of RAM, 512 GB SSD). Which you cannot even buy anymore, because they discontinued it after 9 months (10/2022-07/2023) [1] Microsoft's commitment to Windows on ARM (WoA) is a joke. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Dev_Kit_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Dev_Kit_2023
    - webnrrd2k 3y ago
      It's like no one remembers those Windows RT tablets... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
      - outside1234 3y ago
        We remember them. They were terrible.
    - MikusR 3y ago
      Because current arm socs are the power of Intel Atoms but cost 4 times as much.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  They are actually, https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/10/16/windows-launching-arm-advisory-service-for-developers/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/10/16/window... However the Windows developer community couldn't care less if it doesn't bring more money home, and Microsoft isn't Apple, backwards compatibility matters.
swatcoder 3y ago
For better or worse, the last 15 years saw the industry move to a highly-abstracted platform-agnostic software ecosystem. People perform many of their tasks using applications running in a browser, in a wrapped browser engine like Electron, or in products using other portable runtimes like .NET or the JVM. Meanwhile, much legacy software that hasn't made this transition often comes from an age of much lower performance and so can afford the penalties of emulation against modern hardware. Other legacy products are continually aging out and being retired for other reasons. There are always exceptions, but Intel doesn't have the nearly the security it once did.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  I reckon if you send a gamer kid down to the store to buy a PC they will come back with an Intel architecture machine, even if there were ARM machines there.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    They don't really care as long as the games work. With Nvidia, AMD, and MS pushing, most new releases will probably have an ARM release, and older games can run with translation. The main problematic niche is older releases that are very CPU bound (like some sim games).
    - majormajor 3y ago
      Older games are often already flaky on the current versions of the platforms they were first made for, there's no great easy business in taking legacy PC games and fixing them to be well emulated/translated.
      - brucethemoose2 3y ago
        Well if you go far back enough (like games that need DirectX8 or games that don't work on W10), the compatibility layers get really good, and overhead doesn't matter at all because they run at a billion fps.
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
> I really think Intel will be hard to displace on the desktop. It will be hard but not impossible. If (for example) Nvidia were to produce a product with a tight integration between CPU/GPU - both technically and price wise that could be used to create a very competitive gaming PC (perhaps low to mid end) then worked with a few gaming companies so the major games worked on it. Made sure Windows and the basic office apps, Chrome, Firefox etc. worked well there would be a market, especially if the ARM chip gave a noticeable performance boost over a similarly priced Intel.

outside1234 3y ago

Plus Microsoft is not super invested in making ARM shine like Apple is

StressedDev 3y ago
I am not sure where you got that from. Windows runs great on ARM. I got one the Windows Dev Kit 2023 (it's an 8 core ARM PC with 32 GB of RAM, 512 GB SSD). I ran run Windows, Office, Visual Studio, GIT, etc. I suspect a lot of games will not run but everything else works fine. This includes x64 (x86 64-bit software). Also, MS has made a lot of their software ARM compatible. Office 365, Visual Studio, and Visual Studio code all have native ARM binaries. In Visual Studio's case, it has fewer features than the x64 version (mostly fewer supported SDKs). Overall, I can't tell I am even running on an ARM system because it feels like an x64 system. It is responsive, fast and just works.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- rilut 3y ago
  How is your experience with printers?
  - TreeInBuxton 3y ago
    HP's SUPD has support for ARM-based platforms, which I have found to work well on the more modern printers I have tried
- AnthonyMouse 3y ago
  Microsoft has a history of trying to use architecture transitions as an excuse to lock down the platform. But when both of the architectures are still available, that puts the newer architecture at a competitive disadvantage.
- kogepathic 3y ago
  > Windows runs great on ARM. I got one the Windows Dev Kit 2023 (it's an 8 core ARM PC with 32 GB of RAM, 512 GB SSD). Which you cannot even buy anymore, because they discontinued it after 9 months (10/2022-07/2023) [1] Microsoft's commitment to Windows on ARM (WoA) is a joke. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Dev_Kit_2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Dev_Kit_2023
  - webnrrd2k 3y ago
    It's like no one remembers those Windows RT tablets... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
    - outside1234 3y ago
      We remember them. They were terrible.
  - MikusR 3y ago
    Because current arm socs are the power of Intel Atoms but cost 4 times as much.
pjmlp 3y ago
They are actually, https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/10/16/windows-launching-arm-advisory-service-for-developers/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2023/10/16/window... However the Windows developer community couldn't care less if it doesn't bring more money home, and Microsoft isn't Apple, backwards compatibility matters.

swatcoder 3y ago

For better or worse, the last 15 years saw the industry move to a highly-abstracted platform-agnostic software ecosystem. People perform many of their tasks using applications running in a browser, in a wrapped browser engine like Electron, or in products using other portable runtimes like .NET or the JVM. Meanwhile, much legacy software that hasn't made this transition often comes from an age of much lower performance and so can afford the penalties of emulation against modern hardware. Other legacy products are continually aging out and being retired for other reasons. There are always exceptions, but Intel doesn't have the nearly the security it once did.

andrewstuart 3y ago
I reckon if you send a gamer kid down to the store to buy a PC they will come back with an Intel architecture machine, even if there were ARM machines there.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  They don't really care as long as the games work. With Nvidia, AMD, and MS pushing, most new releases will probably have an ARM release, and older games can run with translation. The main problematic niche is older releases that are very CPU bound (like some sim games).
  - majormajor 3y ago
    Older games are often already flaky on the current versions of the platforms they were first made for, there's no great easy business in taking legacy PC games and fixing them to be well emulated/translated.
    - brucethemoose2 3y ago
      Well if you go far back enough (like games that need DirectX8 or games that don't work on W10), the compatibility layers get really good, and overhead doesn't matter at all because they run at a billion fps.

helsinkiandrew 3y ago

> I really think Intel will be hard to displace on the desktop. It will be hard but not impossible. If (for example) Nvidia were to produce a product with a tight integration between CPU/GPU - both technically and price wise that could be used to create a very competitive gaming PC (perhaps low to mid end) then worked with a few gaming companies so the major games worked on it. Made sure Windows and the basic office apps, Chrome, Firefox etc. worked well there would be a market, especially if the ARM chip gave a noticeable performance boost over a similarly priced Intel.