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>pythons language features The standard library is still a library. Python doesn’t provide very much as a language feature. There are pros and cons to standar

by wredue 3y ago

>pythons language features The standard library is still a library. Python doesn’t provide very much as a language feature. There are pros and cons to standard libraries. If we were talking about brand new C with not a massive community of quality libraries, then yeah. But we’re not. We are talking about a language with a half century of great libraries and frameworks being provided. >memory bugs cause most bugs Yeah no. Not even close. You’re thinking of Microsoft’s citation that 50% of their security bugs are memory safety, but that’s not 50% of all bugs. Basic standard logic bugs are far and away the largest contributor to bugs. The way we know this is that language choice virtually doesn’t matter. On the whole, developers write 20-30 bugs per 1,000 lines of code regardless of language, so memory errors simply cannot be the largest contributor to bugs.

Capricorn2481 3y ago
> The standard library is still a library. No, it's completely different. When a programming language provides a solid way to do something, that becomes a standard and accepted API for doing that thing, and standards are really nice when working with others. > Python doesn’t provide very much as a language feature. Uh what. I don't even like Python that much but this is a ridiculous statement. If we're talking C vs Python, Python is able to deal with lists in extremely terse and memory safe ways and C has a bunch of error-prone ways to do that in 10x the amount of code. If you care about LOC so much, is this not a useful language feature? Aren't you essentially saying C is inherently buggier than Python? > Yeah no. Not even close. You’re thinking of Microsoft’s citation that 50% of their security bugs are memory safety, but that’s not 50% of all bugs. I wasn't, but it was 70% for the record. > Basic standard logic bugs are far and away the largest contributor to bugs. BS. Citation? By what metric? I would wager that almost all C programs have dozens of memory bugs in them whether the developers want to admit it or not. Ever read a security audit of software before? It's never "Oh you forgot to filter this array." It's buffer overflows and poorly allocated variables. > The way we know this is that language choice virtually doesn’t matter. On the whole, developers write 20-30 bugs per 1,000 lines of code regardless of language, so memory errors simply cannot be the largest contributor to bugs. Again, citation? You dismiss a Microsoft security report because that's "just one company" (the biggest company) and then you say this? It's almost like you're saying "There's more logic bugs than memory bugs in memory safe languages."

by wredue 3y ago

Capricorn2481 3y ago

> The standard library is still a library. No, it's completely different. When a programming language provides a solid way to do something, that becomes a standard and accepted API for doing that thing, and standards are really nice when working with others. > Python doesn’t provide very much as a language feature. Uh what. I don't even like Python that much but this is a ridiculous statement. If we're talking C vs Python, Python is able to deal with lists in extremely terse and memory safe ways and C has a bunch of error-prone ways to do that in 10x the amount of code. If you care about LOC so much, is this not a useful language feature? Aren't you essentially saying C is inherently buggier than Python? > Yeah no. Not even close. You’re thinking of Microsoft’s citation that 50% of their security bugs are memory safety, but that’s not 50% of all bugs. I wasn't, but it was 70% for the record. > Basic standard logic bugs are far and away the largest contributor to bugs. BS. Citation? By what metric? I would wager that almost all C programs have dozens of memory bugs in them whether the developers want to admit it or not. Ever read a security audit of software before? It's never "Oh you forgot to filter this array." It's buffer overflows and poorly allocated variables. > The way we know this is that language choice virtually doesn’t matter. On the whole, developers write 20-30 bugs per 1,000 lines of code regardless of language, so memory errors simply cannot be the largest contributor to bugs. Again, citation? You dismiss a Microsoft security report because that's "just one company" (the biggest company) and then you say this? It's almost like you're saying "There's more logic bugs than memory bugs in memory safe languages."