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Idk about everyone else but when it comes to anything running in my car, _anything_, there is no such thing as excessive "playing it safe". It's a 2 ton mass of

Idk about everyone else but when it comes to anything running in my car, _anything_, there is no such thing as excessive "playing it safe". It's a 2 ton mass of steel barreling down the highway at 70+ mph next to other unpredictable 2 ton masses, please for the love of God, fight to maintain that culture of "playing it safe", regardless of what you're working on and for what purpose.

ipaddr 3y ago
Would you be willing to pay millions for your car to make it safer? The pope has bullet proof glass, different body materials can protect your life. How would you define excessive?
- gottorf 3y ago
  Yeah, everything is a tradeoff that should have a coherent risk-benefit analysis attached to it. "X at all costs" isn't realistic.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    Never said "X at all costs" but thanks for trying to speak for me. Going forward, please note that my preference is to speak for myself, as should you.
    - gottorf 3y ago
      I'm not sure why you took such offense; it's a reasonable interpretation of the words you spoke for yourself: > there is no such thing as excessive "playing it safe" As you noted in your other comment: > I'm asking them to "play it safe" when developing components for the car so the car doesn't kill me while I'm in the car. As in the old adage in computing ("the only unhackable computer is one that isn't connected to anything"), there's no way to ensure that the components of a car don't fail, even while in routine use. There is only more or less likely that they won't fail, and of course, less and less likely to fail is more and more expensive. We might say that the only uncrashable car is one that sits in the garage and never goes anywhere. Obviously, that would be playing it safe excessively, since it would defeat the purpose of having a car to begin with. But what about less obvious cases? Toyota recalled millions of cars for their "unintended acceleration" issue. The merits of that particular case aside, how much more would someone pay for a Corolla that would be progressively less likely to have safety issues? At some point before infinity, it would be considered excessive. I think the sliding scale of how safe is playing it too safe is a discussion very much worth having.
- Spivak 3y ago
  Yes, I just don't want to pay all of it myself. I just want to pay the marginal cost of making it. Let the automaker invest said millions (really billions over all the individual components) into the design and manufacture.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  R&D is already baked into the final price of everything we buy so that has no argument. And the bullet proof glass thing I shouldn't even respond to because of the ridiculous extreme you've had to go to, trying to argue against me saying the companies should play it safe, but I'll reply this one time. I'm not asking the car company to protect me from an assassin's bullets. That is not something they control. I'm asking them to "play it safe" when developing components for the car so the car doesn't kill me while I'm in the car. They are responsible for their domain and are not producing armored vehicles for war time. So ridiculous lol
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    If you live in the US, getting shot while driving (or at school, or at work) at is something that happens from time to time, so if you value safety, you really do need armor and bullet-resistant glass on your car to drive in America.
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      So edgy
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        Are you denying that there's more guns than people in the US, or that tens of thousands of people are killed by guns there every year? Strange how Americans are so in denial of the war-like state of their country and daily life in it.
        wutwutwat 3y ago
        Where did I deny anything? I called the comment edgy. I was stating my opinion regarding the edginess of the parent comment. My opinion, on the comment I replied to, was that it was edgy. That was my conclusion, regarding my opinion, on the topic of the parent comment. Strange how HNs assume what country others reside in and apply their opinions, projecting them even, onto anything possible, whether or not the thing they are applying them to is at all related to what they reply with, and how they like to put words into the mouths of others with absolutely zero context to be able to make such assumptions, and are in denial about the ignorant-like state of their psyche and daily life as an idiot.
lost_tourist 3y ago
It should always be tempered with common sense. The older I get the more I just want a basic car. I just need gauges and a radio with bluetooth. I don't need to integrate everything into my car or have an 18" center console. A reliable car (electric or gas), decent interior space, with no surveillance and just basic features and I'll walk into your dealorship and pay cash. Closest I've gotten so far is my base model corolla with 4G antenna disabled (after market).
kazinator 3y ago
> It's a 2 ton mass of steel barreling down the highway at 70+ mph So good thing it's connected to the internet and has four screens.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  > good thing it's connected to the internet and has four screens Not any of my cars that I've owned
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
mirkules 3y ago
Just further proves my point. You should probably then take out any floor mats, cup holders, temperature controls, radio, or anything else that could potentially impede, obstruct, or otherwise distract from driving safely. This comment was meant for the normal folks who spend a lot of time in our vehicles and are willing to accept a level of risk that comes along with having some sense of comfort.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  Yes because the obvious line to draw from me saying keep the playing it safe culture is that I wish car manufactures remove cup holders and floor mats because death is going to find me final destination style and use any object it can to facilitate my demise. I forget the term for this, but it’s the same as me stating I like pancakes and you coming at me saying I hate waffles, when I wasn’t talking about waffles at any point. Those types of arguments are insane and I won’t engage with them. I wasn’t saying those things, I’m not defending against your claims that I did.
  - mirkules 3y ago
    If you are accusing me of being absurdist or reductionist, know this: floor mats were the official cause of "sudden acceleration", where they would slip off their pegs that were holding them to the floor (usually due to human error), and would jam the pedal to the floor. Or sometimes between the brake pedal and the floor preventing correct operation of the brake. In fact, Toyota and NHTSA issued an urgent recall in 2009 to remove all floor mats from vehicles due to this very issue: https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-and-nhtsa-issue-urgent-safety-alert-to-remove-floor-mats-will-it-stop-sudden-acceleration/ https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-and-nhtsa-issue-urgent... So yes, the line was very obvious because these are events that happen in real life, risk that you say you wanted to eliminate by absolutely playing it safe: "_anything_, there is no such thing as excessive 'playing it safe'" I can only assume that your original comment was reactionary and hyperbolic, but then got upset over where that kind of hyperbole lead in the past.

ipaddr 3y ago

Would you be willing to pay millions for your car to make it safer? The pope has bullet proof glass, different body materials can protect your life. How would you define excessive?

gottorf 3y ago
Yeah, everything is a tradeoff that should have a coherent risk-benefit analysis attached to it. "X at all costs" isn't realistic.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  Never said "X at all costs" but thanks for trying to speak for me. Going forward, please note that my preference is to speak for myself, as should you.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    I'm not sure why you took such offense; it's a reasonable interpretation of the words you spoke for yourself: > there is no such thing as excessive "playing it safe" As you noted in your other comment: > I'm asking them to "play it safe" when developing components for the car so the car doesn't kill me while I'm in the car. As in the old adage in computing ("the only unhackable computer is one that isn't connected to anything"), there's no way to ensure that the components of a car don't fail, even while in routine use. There is only more or less likely that they won't fail, and of course, less and less likely to fail is more and more expensive. We might say that the only uncrashable car is one that sits in the garage and never goes anywhere. Obviously, that would be playing it safe excessively, since it would defeat the purpose of having a car to begin with. But what about less obvious cases? Toyota recalled millions of cars for their "unintended acceleration" issue. The merits of that particular case aside, how much more would someone pay for a Corolla that would be progressively less likely to have safety issues? At some point before infinity, it would be considered excessive. I think the sliding scale of how safe is playing it too safe is a discussion very much worth having.
Spivak 3y ago
Yes, I just don't want to pay all of it myself. I just want to pay the marginal cost of making it. Let the automaker invest said millions (really billions over all the individual components) into the design and manufacture.
wutwutwat 3y ago
R&D is already baked into the final price of everything we buy so that has no argument. And the bullet proof glass thing I shouldn't even respond to because of the ridiculous extreme you've had to go to, trying to argue against me saying the companies should play it safe, but I'll reply this one time. I'm not asking the car company to protect me from an assassin's bullets. That is not something they control. I'm asking them to "play it safe" when developing components for the car so the car doesn't kill me while I'm in the car. They are responsible for their domain and are not producing armored vehicles for war time. So ridiculous lol
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  If you live in the US, getting shot while driving (or at school, or at work) at is something that happens from time to time, so if you value safety, you really do need armor and bullet-resistant glass on your car to drive in America.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    So edgy
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Are you denying that there's more guns than people in the US, or that tens of thousands of people are killed by guns there every year? Strange how Americans are so in denial of the war-like state of their country and daily life in it.
      - wutwutwat 3y ago
        Where did I deny anything? I called the comment edgy. I was stating my opinion regarding the edginess of the parent comment. My opinion, on the comment I replied to, was that it was edgy. That was my conclusion, regarding my opinion, on the topic of the parent comment. Strange how HNs assume what country others reside in and apply their opinions, projecting them even, onto anything possible, whether or not the thing they are applying them to is at all related to what they reply with, and how they like to put words into the mouths of others with absolutely zero context to be able to make such assumptions, and are in denial about the ignorant-like state of their psyche and daily life as an idiot.

lost_tourist 3y ago

It should always be tempered with common sense. The older I get the more I just want a basic car. I just need gauges and a radio with bluetooth. I don't need to integrate everything into my car or have an 18" center console. A reliable car (electric or gas), decent interior space, with no surveillance and just basic features and I'll walk into your dealorship and pay cash. Closest I've gotten so far is my base model corolla with 4G antenna disabled (after market).

kazinator 3y ago

> It's a 2 ton mass of steel barreling down the highway at 70+ mph So good thing it's connected to the internet and has four screens.

wutwutwat 3y ago
> good thing it's connected to the internet and has four screens Not any of my cars that I've owned
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

mirkules 3y ago

Just further proves my point. You should probably then take out any floor mats, cup holders, temperature controls, radio, or anything else that could potentially impede, obstruct, or otherwise distract from driving safely. This comment was meant for the normal folks who spend a lot of time in our vehicles and are willing to accept a level of risk that comes along with having some sense of comfort.

wutwutwat 3y ago
Yes because the obvious line to draw from me saying keep the playing it safe culture is that I wish car manufactures remove cup holders and floor mats because death is going to find me final destination style and use any object it can to facilitate my demise. I forget the term for this, but it’s the same as me stating I like pancakes and you coming at me saying I hate waffles, when I wasn’t talking about waffles at any point. Those types of arguments are insane and I won’t engage with them. I wasn’t saying those things, I’m not defending against your claims that I did.
- mirkules 3y ago
  If you are accusing me of being absurdist or reductionist, know this: floor mats were the official cause of "sudden acceleration", where they would slip off their pegs that were holding them to the floor (usually due to human error), and would jam the pedal to the floor. Or sometimes between the brake pedal and the floor preventing correct operation of the brake. In fact, Toyota and NHTSA issued an urgent recall in 2009 to remove all floor mats from vehicles due to this very issue: https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-and-nhtsa-issue-urgent-safety-alert-to-remove-floor-mats-will-it-stop-sudden-acceleration/ https://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-and-nhtsa-issue-urgent... So yes, the line was very obvious because these are events that happen in real life, risk that you say you wanted to eliminate by absolutely playing it safe: "_anything_, there is no such thing as excessive 'playing it safe'" I can only assume that your original comment was reactionary and hyperbolic, but then got upset over where that kind of hyperbole lead in the past.