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This won’t work. 1/ this will incentive IT and software jobs and marginalize other fields with lower pay (physics, mechanical, chemical, etc). 2/ this would m

This won’t work. 1/ this will incentive IT and software jobs and marginalize other fields with lower pay (physics, mechanical, chemical, etc). 2/ this would mean only bigger software companies would get a chance and people would willing to work in startups will stand lower chance. What we need is a way to avoid abuse by body shops.

light_hue_1 3y ago
Of course this will work. We want the people who do the jobs that have the most impact on the economy. > 1/ this will incentive IT and software jobs and marginalize other fields with lower pay (physics, mechanical, chemical, etc). Why!? If those people are important they can be paid well too. There are plenty of chemical engineers that make good money. > 2/ this would mean only bigger software companies would get a chance and people would willing to work in startups will stand lower chance. Startups can pay too. In any case, most startups don't sponsor H1Bs because of the uncertainty associated with the process.
- tomohelix 3y ago
  Do those chemical engineers make the same amount of money as a software dev with the same amount of experience? A fresh ChemE grad would be lucky to land a 120K job as a process engineer. Very lucky. An entry software job is 150K. Does this mean the a CS grad is on average more impactful to the economy than a chemical engineer? Not all industries can pay as much as software. A PhD with an extra 5-10 years of industrial experience may get a 200K salary in biotech, often less. A CS bachelor with 1-2 years of experience would get that 200K. Pay doesn't always equal the value of your contribution, especially if you compare them across different fields.
fallingknife 3y ago
Why are either of those things a problem? Why do we need to spread H1Bs between industries? Why do small companies who pay less deserve cheap foreign labor over large companies who pay more?
- tomohelix 3y ago
  Because software isn't the only industry critical to an economy, others are too. You can argue that pay=value to the economy but in practice, you can't equalize value and pay across all industries. Here is an extreme example: no matter how good a high school teacher is at teaching and innovative classroom management, no school would pay them 300K a year to teach because the average salary for this role is 60k. A more realistic example is a biotech PhD scientist with years of experience and proven impact in pharmaceutical industry. You would be hard pressed to find a company willing to pay this scientist 300K a year (avg salary for principal reseach scientist in SF is 200K). Value and pay aren't the same across industries. Someone can still contribute the same value but the field they are in simply doesn't have the economic profitability required to pay them the same way software does. In fact, software is the anomaly in compensation. Making a policy that benefits only one type of industry over everything else is simply bad policy.
adrr 3y ago
Other fields can get an O-1 Visa to get extraordinary talent. H1B is the bottom rung and should have a floor set by marketing conditions. Body(Tata, etc) shops aren't the only ones abusing it.
Reubend 3y ago
Your first point is great. But I don't think the second one is relevant. The government shouldn't fight for lower paying jobs at the expense of higher paying ones. There are a limited number of visas granted each year, and higher pay is a signal from the market that a particular position is _actually_ more difficult to fill. If startups can't afford top talent, then surely they can hire American workers instead?

light_hue_1 3y ago

Of course this will work. We want the people who do the jobs that have the most impact on the economy. > 1/ this will incentive IT and software jobs and marginalize other fields with lower pay (physics, mechanical, chemical, etc). Why!? If those people are important they can be paid well too. There are plenty of chemical engineers that make good money. > 2/ this would mean only bigger software companies would get a chance and people would willing to work in startups will stand lower chance. Startups can pay too. In any case, most startups don't sponsor H1Bs because of the uncertainty associated with the process.

tomohelix 3y ago
Do those chemical engineers make the same amount of money as a software dev with the same amount of experience? A fresh ChemE grad would be lucky to land a 120K job as a process engineer. Very lucky. An entry software job is 150K. Does this mean the a CS grad is on average more impactful to the economy than a chemical engineer? Not all industries can pay as much as software. A PhD with an extra 5-10 years of industrial experience may get a 200K salary in biotech, often less. A CS bachelor with 1-2 years of experience would get that 200K. Pay doesn't always equal the value of your contribution, especially if you compare them across different fields.

fallingknife 3y ago

Why are either of those things a problem? Why do we need to spread H1Bs between industries? Why do small companies who pay less deserve cheap foreign labor over large companies who pay more?

tomohelix 3y ago
Because software isn't the only industry critical to an economy, others are too. You can argue that pay=value to the economy but in practice, you can't equalize value and pay across all industries. Here is an extreme example: no matter how good a high school teacher is at teaching and innovative classroom management, no school would pay them 300K a year to teach because the average salary for this role is 60k. A more realistic example is a biotech PhD scientist with years of experience and proven impact in pharmaceutical industry. You would be hard pressed to find a company willing to pay this scientist 300K a year (avg salary for principal reseach scientist in SF is 200K). Value and pay aren't the same across industries. Someone can still contribute the same value but the field they are in simply doesn't have the economic profitability required to pay them the same way software does. In fact, software is the anomaly in compensation. Making a policy that benefits only one type of industry over everything else is simply bad policy.

adrr 3y ago

Other fields can get an O-1 Visa to get extraordinary talent. H1B is the bottom rung and should have a floor set by marketing conditions. Body(Tata, etc) shops aren't the only ones abusing it.

Reubend 3y ago

Your first point is great. But I don't think the second one is relevant. The government shouldn't fight for lower paying jobs at the expense of higher paying ones. There are a limited number of visas granted each year, and higher pay is a signal from the market that a particular position is _actually_ more difficult to fill. If startups can't afford top talent, then surely they can hire American workers instead?