3 ms·

No I have a better plan which guarantees full 100% safety for children but doesn't require verification or identification: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=

No I have a better plan which guarantees full 100% safety for children but doesn't require verification or identification: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37991197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37991197

conception 3y ago
The problem with your solution is laws/regulations are not really enforceable internationally.
- codedokode 3y ago
  Do not allow accessing foreign websites (from countries which did not join the convention) when "safe content" setting is active.
  - afavour 3y ago
    How do you define “foreign website”?
    - codedokode 3y ago
      A website which is hosted (physically located) in a country not participating in Safe Content Marking Agreement or owner of which is anonymous or is from a foreign country. Basically any site whose owner or operator you cannot put to jail.
  - superq 3y ago
    How long before "safe content" becomes the default? .. and then the requirement .. and then the law? I'll take my Internet unsafe, thank you very much.
- throwanem 3y ago
  The other problem with that solution is that it's impossible. Sounds great aside from that implementation detail, though!
  - codedokode 3y ago
    What exactly is impossible?
    - throwanem 3y ago
      You're assuming perfect authorization to flip the "safe mode" switch.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  They are, see the international cooperations on CSAM. Literally every state with a barely functioning government agrees that this kind of conduct is inacceptable.
  - conception 3y ago
    Oh, so there's no CSAM on the internet? Cool. It works!
Belopolye 3y ago
I don’t agree with what I expect.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
Instead of expecting every web service to present the appropriate headers, let's decentralize this work: Create a web of trust where users authoritatively declare content to be safe/unsafe/nsfw/etc. Then just restrict your browser to the curated web of your choice.
Terr_ 3y ago
I half-agree in that I'd like to see the inverse: Devices support a parental-lock, and that setting ensures the device sends metadata outward. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37330234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37330234
- codedokode 3y ago
  This means that every site in the world must interpret the headers, while with my proposal sites need to opt-in (and pass certification) to be available on children's devices.
belthesar 3y ago
Questions I have to this proposal: * A site must be certified by some board in order to be accessible. At what level is a site certified? Root level? Page level? Individual content item. * A site hosts user generated content. This could be as small as comments on an article, or as large as YouTube. How is the site certified? If each piece of content must be certified, who assumes responsibility for certification? * A site is certified as appropriate for all ages. The owner of the site then puts content that would have caused to to fail certification. At what interval is a site expected to recertify? What is the ramification for certification and then hosting of objectionable content? * You have a process that is onerous for site administrators to comply with in order to host content for children. What incentive is for them to comply vs. not host a site that requires certification? * As a parent, you install a compliant operating system that enforces this system. Sites comply with the program and it works without exception. Kids talk, as they do, and share how to get around this system by using a Linux live environment to boot into an OS that does not enforce the parental control header. How do you prevent this? * As a parent, you install a compliant operating system that enforces this system. Your kid either does not know how, or is prevented from circumventing these access controls. They have one or more friends that have computers that are not blocked from accessing this content. How do you prevent them from accessing content in this system?
- codedokode 3y ago
  > A site must be certified by some board in order to be accessible. At what level is a site certified? Root level? Page level? Individual content item. There could be an organization that verifies that the owner and operator of the site are not foreign (so they can be taken to court if needed), reviews the content policy and moderation policy to ensure that no unsafe content can be published, and issues a cryptographic signature to the website. The website displays a signature in HTTP headers. > How is the site certified? If each piece of content must be certified, who assumes responsibility for certification? There should be moderation policy guaranteering safety, for example, all comments must be reviewed by moderators. > The owner of the site then puts content that would have caused to to fail certification Then they can get into jail if they do it intentionally. > What incentive is for them to comply vs. not host a site that requires certification? They can have paid content or show ads. > by using a Linux live environment to boot into an OS that does not enforce the parental control header. Requirement to install Linux will stop majority of children.

conception 3y ago

The problem with your solution is laws/regulations are not really enforceable internationally.

codedokode 3y ago
Do not allow accessing foreign websites (from countries which did not join the convention) when "safe content" setting is active.
- afavour 3y ago
  How do you define “foreign website”?
  - codedokode 3y ago
    A website which is hosted (physically located) in a country not participating in Safe Content Marking Agreement or owner of which is anonymous or is from a foreign country. Basically any site whose owner or operator you cannot put to jail.
- superq 3y ago
  How long before "safe content" becomes the default? .. and then the requirement .. and then the law? I'll take my Internet unsafe, thank you very much.
throwanem 3y ago
The other problem with that solution is that it's impossible. Sounds great aside from that implementation detail, though!
- codedokode 3y ago
  What exactly is impossible?
  - throwanem 3y ago
    You're assuming perfect authorization to flip the "safe mode" switch.
mschuster91 3y ago
They are, see the international cooperations on CSAM. Literally every state with a barely functioning government agrees that this kind of conduct is inacceptable.
- conception 3y ago
  Oh, so there's no CSAM on the internet? Cool. It works!

Belopolye 3y ago

I don’t agree with what I expect.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

Instead of expecting every web service to present the appropriate headers, let's decentralize this work: Create a web of trust where users authoritatively declare content to be safe/unsafe/nsfw/etc. Then just restrict your browser to the curated web of your choice.

Terr_ 3y ago

I half-agree in that I'd like to see the inverse: Devices support a parental-lock, and that setting ensures the device sends metadata outward. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37330234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37330234

codedokode 3y ago
This means that every site in the world must interpret the headers, while with my proposal sites need to opt-in (and pass certification) to be available on children's devices.

belthesar 3y ago

Questions I have to this proposal: * A site must be certified by some board in order to be accessible. At what level is a site certified? Root level? Page level? Individual content item. * A site hosts user generated content. This could be as small as comments on an article, or as large as YouTube. How is the site certified? If each piece of content must be certified, who assumes responsibility for certification? * A site is certified as appropriate for all ages. The owner of the site then puts content that would have caused to to fail certification. At what interval is a site expected to recertify? What is the ramification for certification and then hosting of objectionable content? * You have a process that is onerous for site administrators to comply with in order to host content for children. What incentive is for them to comply vs. not host a site that requires certification? * As a parent, you install a compliant operating system that enforces this system. Sites comply with the program and it works without exception. Kids talk, as they do, and share how to get around this system by using a Linux live environment to boot into an OS that does not enforce the parental control header. How do you prevent this? * As a parent, you install a compliant operating system that enforces this system. Your kid either does not know how, or is prevented from circumventing these access controls. They have one or more friends that have computers that are not blocked from accessing this content. How do you prevent them from accessing content in this system?

codedokode 3y ago
> A site must be certified by some board in order to be accessible. At what level is a site certified? Root level? Page level? Individual content item. There could be an organization that verifies that the owner and operator of the site are not foreign (so they can be taken to court if needed), reviews the content policy and moderation policy to ensure that no unsafe content can be published, and issues a cryptographic signature to the website. The website displays a signature in HTTP headers. > How is the site certified? If each piece of content must be certified, who assumes responsibility for certification? There should be moderation policy guaranteering safety, for example, all comments must be reviewed by moderators. > The owner of the site then puts content that would have caused to to fail certification Then they can get into jail if they do it intentionally. > What incentive is for them to comply vs. not host a site that requires certification? They can have paid content or show ads. > by using a Linux live environment to boot into an OS that does not enforce the parental control header. Requirement to install Linux will stop majority of children.