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A horrifying human experience is living in a war zone. It’s not having to move to a different bart car or endure a pan handler requesting money.

junofan 3y ago
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clay_the_ripper 3y ago
Have you/do you live in SF? I have had my fair share of horrifying experiences in SF that were a lot more serious than a panhandler. And I think others would agree.
a13n 3y ago
I know several people who have been physically assaulted in San Francisco, including one guy who was shot. It’s far worse than you describe.
javajosh 3y ago
It's genuinely horrifying to realize that you both consider yourself a good person and yet recoil in disgust at people in great need. What is more painful than having your self-conception as an altruistic, moral person thoroughly undermined?
- lazide 3y ago
  Empathy without boundaries is self destruction
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Even this can still be horrifying to face, when seeing the scale of those whose suffering exists and is far beyond your means to do anything about, even before facing ones own analysis-paralysis upon seeing so many good causes and not knowing what to do about it. Much easier to hide from this, one way or another. Some do it with platitudes about fish or hard work, others with demands that the super-rich pay more taxes, still more with karma and the mysterious workings of the divine. That's all very human.
    - lazide 3y ago
      Underlying that is a presumption of control and ownership of things outside one’s control which is toxic though. Suffering may exist. But when it is outside of one’s actual sphere of influence, and not caused by you - it is not really your business. Turning it into an imperative is actually inverting the ownership involved, and trying to turn someone else’s pain into yours. Which is the toxic part. As it disconnects the situation from who really does own it, and who really does have it within their sphere of influence.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        > Underlying that is a presumption of control and ownership of things outside one’s control which is toxic though. Sure, but it is (to varying degrees between each person and situation) hard not to make this error when you're face-to-face with it. > it is not really your business. On a personal level, perhaps not; but hence the left half of politics, all the way from "lets not cut taxes" to actual literal Communism.
        lazide 3y ago
        Sure. It’s also self destructive and often destructive to the one being ‘helped’ when taken to extremes (like most things). The history of aid to Africa causing economic disruption and further long term misery being a good example.

junofan 3y ago

[dead]

clay_the_ripper 3y ago

Have you/do you live in SF? I have had my fair share of horrifying experiences in SF that were a lot more serious than a panhandler. And I think others would agree.

a13n 3y ago

I know several people who have been physically assaulted in San Francisco, including one guy who was shot. It’s far worse than you describe.

javajosh 3y ago

It's genuinely horrifying to realize that you both consider yourself a good person and yet recoil in disgust at people in great need. What is more painful than having your self-conception as an altruistic, moral person thoroughly undermined?

lazide 3y ago
Empathy without boundaries is self destruction
- ben_w 3y ago
  Even this can still be horrifying to face, when seeing the scale of those whose suffering exists and is far beyond your means to do anything about, even before facing ones own analysis-paralysis upon seeing so many good causes and not knowing what to do about it. Much easier to hide from this, one way or another. Some do it with platitudes about fish or hard work, others with demands that the super-rich pay more taxes, still more with karma and the mysterious workings of the divine. That's all very human.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Underlying that is a presumption of control and ownership of things outside one’s control which is toxic though. Suffering may exist. But when it is outside of one’s actual sphere of influence, and not caused by you - it is not really your business. Turning it into an imperative is actually inverting the ownership involved, and trying to turn someone else’s pain into yours. Which is the toxic part. As it disconnects the situation from who really does own it, and who really does have it within their sphere of influence.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      > Underlying that is a presumption of control and ownership of things outside one’s control which is toxic though. Sure, but it is (to varying degrees between each person and situation) hard not to make this error when you're face-to-face with it. > it is not really your business. On a personal level, perhaps not; but hence the left half of politics, all the way from "lets not cut taxes" to actual literal Communism.
      - lazide 3y ago
        Sure. It’s also self destructive and often destructive to the one being ‘helped’ when taken to extremes (like most things). The history of aid to Africa causing economic disruption and further long term misery being a good example.