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We "made" $190k selling a home we bought as a foreclosure in 2009 in 2021. In reality we didn't make jack squat. We paid that much in interest alone over the co

We "made" $190k selling a home we bought as a foreclosure in 2009 in 2021. In reality we didn't make jack squat. We paid that much in interest alone over the course of those years. The blood, sweat equity, and money we spent on upkeep and upgrades is incalculable to double entry standard, but I can tell you it was an absolute shit ton. I didn't even do the math on our property taxes, refinance charges, and closing costs because it's maddening to think about. Since we have been renting our accounts have gone parabolic. We are able to save my wife's entire check, every month. There is no money burning a hole in her pocket to redo the kitchen, or bathroom, or backyard. There is no money going toward a new garbage disposal or A/C unit. We have more money despite two teenagers that have gone parabolic fees for club sports, driving, clothes, and FOOD. We could absolutely buy right now, but I have my foot firmly down as a HARD NO. I would rather buy her a new car to assuage the urge to buy a home. If I could wave a magic wand and remove the desire completely, I would in a heartbeat. A home, from a 100% economic POV, is a waste of time and money. It is only complicated because of emotions and "what everyone else" is doing. There is zero logic in a mortgage and what is worse is that you never truly own the dirt your home is sitting on, at least in the USA. Edit: I feel like the people that encourage others to buy a mortgage are doing so out of ignorance and have never actually thought it through to the end of days. I see old people living in nursing homes every day. None of them tell me about the homes they lived in while we wait for transport to the ER. They all talk about experiences, places they have traveled, their families, and the parts of their working lives they loved and hated. Never had a person talk about their "mortgage", I mean "home" on their deathbed.

adamredwoods 3y ago
When we rented, anytime the market shifted, the landlords raised rents on us. It was hell. I was paying more than what a mortgage was. When I bought, all that went away. We bought a nice house that didn't need immediate work done. My mortgage was below rental rates. So my point is that it takes a little insight when buying a house, but if rents are expected to go up (which are expected almost always), then it's a wise decision long term. Yes, house maintenance needs to be factored in, but those costs are amortized over long-term.
- monkmartinez 3y ago
  Have you factored in property taxes, impact fees if any, landscaping, HOA fees if any, school district fees/changes/bonds, fire protection fees/bonds/changes, Home owners insurance, sewer or water treatment bonds/fees/changes, utility bonds/fees/changes, and more? Have you factored in a terrible neighbor? A halfway house or care home next door? Rent may be going up or down or sideways... you have the option to move if you don't like it. I could realistically move in less than a week and I have a full blown wood shop in my rental garage, two teenagers, wife and a dog. It would be messy, but we could do it with basically zero consequences. If you care about your credit score, you are not going to just walk away from your mortgage. We can jam out of here if the wind blows a direction we don't care for. With all three cars paid off, I truly have zero debt. A few of my friends tell me they have "zero debt except for the mortgage"... I am like that is a giant ball and chain around your neck broham... Nothing about that says "debt free" or "freedom."
  - adamredwoods 3y ago
    >> I am like that is a giant ball and chain around your neck broham... Nothing about that says "debt free" or "freedom. Mortgage debt is not a concern, houses can be sold on a market. If you feel that having no mortgage empowers you, then that's great for you! I don't think this "fear" applies to everyone. Debt can be used very strategically.
  - ghusto 3y ago
    > Have you factored in property taxes, impact fees if any, landscaping, HOA fees if any, school district fees/changes/bonds, fire protection fees/bonds/changes, Home owners insurance, sewer or water treatment bonds/fees/changes, utility bonds/fees/changes, and more? All this leads me to believe the situation is very different in America. I'm not even sure what any of that means. Here in Europe you buy a house, pay interest on the mortgage, and that's about it.
ghusto 3y ago
Maybe a difference in American made houses vs. European ones. I don't know, but generally when you buy a house here, it's not a money-pit. I'm happy you're doing better renting, and I agree that experiences are far more important than "stuff", but I don't count a home as stuff. Unless you're doing something cool like nomading it, I see buying a house as just having one of your basics covered and out of the way, like buying shoes. I'm paying a little under 3/4 of what I'd be (was) paying in rent, and whilst there's the interest to take into account, the maths easy: If the interest is less than what rent would be, then having interest is better than paying rent, since 100% of rent is up in smoke, whereas only the interest is up in smoke for a mortgage.

adamredwoods 3y ago

When we rented, anytime the market shifted, the landlords raised rents on us. It was hell. I was paying more than what a mortgage was. When I bought, all that went away. We bought a nice house that didn't need immediate work done. My mortgage was below rental rates. So my point is that it takes a little insight when buying a house, but if rents are expected to go up (which are expected almost always), then it's a wise decision long term. Yes, house maintenance needs to be factored in, but those costs are amortized over long-term.

monkmartinez 3y ago
Have you factored in property taxes, impact fees if any, landscaping, HOA fees if any, school district fees/changes/bonds, fire protection fees/bonds/changes, Home owners insurance, sewer or water treatment bonds/fees/changes, utility bonds/fees/changes, and more? Have you factored in a terrible neighbor? A halfway house or care home next door? Rent may be going up or down or sideways... you have the option to move if you don't like it. I could realistically move in less than a week and I have a full blown wood shop in my rental garage, two teenagers, wife and a dog. It would be messy, but we could do it with basically zero consequences. If you care about your credit score, you are not going to just walk away from your mortgage. We can jam out of here if the wind blows a direction we don't care for. With all three cars paid off, I truly have zero debt. A few of my friends tell me they have "zero debt except for the mortgage"... I am like that is a giant ball and chain around your neck broham... Nothing about that says "debt free" or "freedom."
- adamredwoods 3y ago
  >> I am like that is a giant ball and chain around your neck broham... Nothing about that says "debt free" or "freedom. Mortgage debt is not a concern, houses can be sold on a market. If you feel that having no mortgage empowers you, then that's great for you! I don't think this "fear" applies to everyone. Debt can be used very strategically.
- ghusto 3y ago
  > Have you factored in property taxes, impact fees if any, landscaping, HOA fees if any, school district fees/changes/bonds, fire protection fees/bonds/changes, Home owners insurance, sewer or water treatment bonds/fees/changes, utility bonds/fees/changes, and more? All this leads me to believe the situation is very different in America. I'm not even sure what any of that means. Here in Europe you buy a house, pay interest on the mortgage, and that's about it.

ghusto 3y ago

Maybe a difference in American made houses vs. European ones. I don't know, but generally when you buy a house here, it's not a money-pit. I'm happy you're doing better renting, and I agree that experiences are far more important than "stuff", but I don't count a home as stuff. Unless you're doing something cool like nomading it, I see buying a house as just having one of your basics covered and out of the way, like buying shoes. I'm paying a little under 3/4 of what I'd be (was) paying in rent, and whilst there's the interest to take into account, the maths easy: If the interest is less than what rent would be, then having interest is better than paying rent, since 100% of rent is up in smoke, whereas only the interest is up in smoke for a mortgage.