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> Yeah, just like how there are no companies in states with high taxes because raising the corporate tax rate will just cause companies to move and only leave s

> Yeah, just like how there are no companies in states with high taxes because raising the corporate tax rate will just cause companies to move and only leave small companies like Google who can't afford to move stuck with the bill. This is false, though you are correct that companies do often leave jurisdictions with high taxes to move to low tax areas. > We have a long historical trend of observing people moving to avoid taxes. Fully in agreement here. > Just ask Europe with its 0 billionaires. Europe doesn't have 0 billionaires. They have a few, but to your point they are very underrepresented, so you are directionaly right here.

godelski 3y ago
I guess the /sarcasm tag was indeed necessary. I didn't feel the need because I thought what I said was trivially verifiably false and was clearly making a mockery of your prior comment. To my point about Europe, I'm not under the impression that there are few billionaires in Europe because either: 1) entrepreneurs move from Europe to the US to start a company from the ground up or 2) begin in Europe and then move headquarters to the US (more likely Ireland), or 3) personally move residency regardless of their company location. I'll note that the US taxes you wherever you are. In fact, one of only 2 countries to tax based on citizenship. So Americans moving to Canada wouldn't do anything without them renouncing their citizenship. So that would really make it unlikely that billionaires are moving residence just for tax avoidance. I mean we don't even see a lot of that with states. California and New York both have the greatest number of billionaires AND have some of (if not) the highest tax rates in the entire country. I'm just saying (as I was using satire to express) that we don't see your claim of "people will move." This has been a long cried claim that has never proven to be reasonable, despite being claimed for decades (and truthfully, even longer). I'll stick with my observable correlations over old Tea Party propaganda. Idk, I'll drop a source or something in case that one stat isn't convincing enough (or recognizing that 4 of the top 10 global companies are in CA and only 1 of those 10 companies moved (Tesla)). https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-taxes-have-a-minimal-impact-on-peoples-interstate-moves https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-tax...
- chollida1 3y ago
  Ha sorry, yes I assumed you were serious. > I'm just saying (as I was using satire to express) that we don't see your claim of "people will move." To poke a huge hole in your theory that problem don’t move to avoid taxes I’ve posted a link. France tried A billionaire wealth tax and people moved to avoid it. The tax was a disaster and they scrapped it. So that’s provable true that people will live to avoid such taxes. https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/education/2021/02/11/lessons-from-history-france-s-wealth-tax-did-more-harm-than-good/ https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/education/2021/02/11/le...
  - godelski 3y ago
    Yeah, I don't think it doesn't cause people to leave (certainly no thing is absolute) but rather suggesting that we don't see this to be a large effect in practice. And my understanding of that specific example is that it has some quirks with France's specific implementations as well as the high movability in Europe. Every billionaire has a house in the South of France and can get there relatively easily but that's not so easy in the US despite not being too hard to change state residence (like changing country residence within the EU for good parallel), but country (non-intra-EU) changing is much more cumbersome. Plus, as we've established, if you're American you have to renounce your citizenship to avoid taxes. So... definitely no reason to move to Canada. Just saying...

godelski 3y ago

I guess the /sarcasm tag was indeed necessary. I didn't feel the need because I thought what I said was trivially verifiably false and was clearly making a mockery of your prior comment. To my point about Europe, I'm not under the impression that there are few billionaires in Europe because either: 1) entrepreneurs move from Europe to the US to start a company from the ground up or 2) begin in Europe and then move headquarters to the US (more likely Ireland), or 3) personally move residency regardless of their company location. I'll note that the US taxes you wherever you are. In fact, one of only 2 countries to tax based on citizenship. So Americans moving to Canada wouldn't do anything without them renouncing their citizenship. So that would really make it unlikely that billionaires are moving residence just for tax avoidance. I mean we don't even see a lot of that with states. California and New York both have the greatest number of billionaires AND have some of (if not) the highest tax rates in the entire country. I'm just saying (as I was using satire to express) that we don't see your claim of "people will move." This has been a long cried claim that has never proven to be reasonable, despite being claimed for decades (and truthfully, even longer). I'll stick with my observable correlations over old Tea Party propaganda. Idk, I'll drop a source or something in case that one stat isn't convincing enough (or recognizing that 4 of the top 10 global companies are in CA and only 1 of those 10 companies moved (Tesla)). https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-taxes-have-a-minimal-impact-on-peoples-interstate-moves https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-tax...

chollida1 3y ago
Ha sorry, yes I assumed you were serious. > I'm just saying (as I was using satire to express) that we don't see your claim of "people will move." To poke a huge hole in your theory that problem don’t move to avoid taxes I’ve posted a link. France tried A billionaire wealth tax and people moved to avoid it. The tax was a disaster and they scrapped it. So that’s provable true that people will live to avoid such taxes. https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/education/2021/02/11/lessons-from-history-france-s-wealth-tax-did-more-harm-than-good/ https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/education/2021/02/11/le...
- godelski 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't think it doesn't cause people to leave (certainly no thing is absolute) but rather suggesting that we don't see this to be a large effect in practice. And my understanding of that specific example is that it has some quirks with France's specific implementations as well as the high movability in Europe. Every billionaire has a house in the South of France and can get there relatively easily but that's not so easy in the US despite not being too hard to change state residence (like changing country residence within the EU for good parallel), but country (non-intra-EU) changing is much more cumbersome. Plus, as we've established, if you're American you have to renounce your citizenship to avoid taxes. So... definitely no reason to move to Canada. Just saying...