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This is totally incorrect for the case of the Hamas and is overused as a statement. It gives a terrible name to actual freedom fighters. The Hamas isn't an org

This is totally incorrect for the case of the Hamas and is overused as a statement. It gives a terrible name to actual freedom fighters. The Hamas isn't an organization with freedom as its goal. It's goal is strictly holy war (Jihad) and it considers the Palestinian children it kills along the way as martyrs. It has been a cancer on the people living in Gaza and has physically stopped the peace treaty (Oslo accord) from proceeding.

LindeBuzoGray 3y ago
Israel had a role in creating and incubating Hamas directly, as senior Israelis have admitted. Haaretz recently printed how Netanyahu also was encouraging Hamas as he wanted war and west Bank settlement, not to make deals with Fatah.
- invalidname 3y ago
  100%. I would argue that's probably its biggest crime. Specifically why Benjamin Netanyahu is pure evil.
dopamean 3y ago
Honest question because I'm not super educated on this matter... I keep hearing all this awful stuff about Hamas: they use human shields, they're launching rockets from hospitals and churches, they dont care about the lives of Palestinian people. The only people I ever hear making these claims are Israelis and pro-Israeli westerners. I haven't heard any of these claims from Palestinian people. If it was true that they're being used as human shields by these awful thugs that are ruining their lives wouldn't there be more of an outcry against them by Palestinians? Maybe that's happening and I'm just not seeing it?
- invalidname 3y ago
  Plenty of Palestinians and Arabs talk about that but they get very little press. Probably most famous is Mosab: https://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080 https://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinka...
- grumple 3y ago
  The majority of Palestinians support Hamas and violence against Jews. You can find recent polls: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8... https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2086%20English%20fulltext%20Dec2022.pdf https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2086%20English%20... (warning, pdf) If you want to learn more about the way Palestinians and Hamas interact, look up "Son of Hamas", a book by the Palestinian son of one of the founders of Hamas. Here's an interview with him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v738Wogza0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v738Wogza0 That's a good start. You can find reports of rockets launched from civilian areas on your own. I'm sure you can find others condemning Hamas. But the reason there isn't more obvious outcry is because Palestinians are largely supportive, and those that aren't don't exactly have robust freedom of speech protections - speaking out can get you killed. And the media doesn't seem to like portraying Palestine as anything other than a monoculture.
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    First off, 45% of the population of Gaza is below the age of 15. Secondly, https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-before-it-attacked-israel-surveys-showed-gazans-cared-more-about-fighting-poverty-than-armed-resistance-215640 https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-befo... > Support of armed resistance was not always present. When Hamas openly fought the Palestinian Authority – which governs the West Bank and questioned the legitimacy of Hamas’ victory – and seized control over the Gaza Strip in 2007, over 73% of Palestinians opposed that seizure and any further armed conflict. > At that time, fewer than one-third of Gazans supported any military action against Israel. Over 80% condemned kidnapping, arson and indiscriminate violence. > If read over time, polls of Gazans from 2007 to 2023 tell a story. They help make clear that Gazan support for armed resistance grew alongside increasing frustration, anger and a sense of hopelessness with any political solution to their suffering. It's very easy to judge people born into what is essentially the largest open-air prison in the world for being able to be driven mad, blow by blow by blow. You think you'd fare better?
legulere 3y ago
I agree with you on Hamas, but what do you think about the PLO which used to be designated a terrorist organisation?
- invalidname 3y ago
  I'm one of the Naaive people who think the Oslo accord would have worked if the Hamas was stopped and if Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn't have sabotaged it from the other side. Unfortunately, today they are weakened due to terrible Israeli policy (specifically by Netanyahu). I hope Israelis understand that mistake but I'm not very optimistic. I hope that after the dust settles Netanyahu will be gone and who ever is in charge will come to a reasonable agreement with the PLO. However, I'm not very optimistic. I think they have a more justified claim since the west bank has been expanding settlements (against Israeli law).
isykt 3y ago
What do you think Hamas thinks?
- invalidname 3y ago
  They are conducting a religious Jihad. Their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel and an Islamic state in the area. They want to outcast every Jew living in the region. That is part of their charter. In this conflict their goal was to start a regional war by inflaming Jordan, Egypt, etc. This would make them dissolve the peace agreement and go back to an all out war. To do that they need Israeli war crimes at a terrible scale especially against their own civilians. They are using the bombings as propaganda to further their goals. Netanyahu is an idiot who (as usual) gives them exactly what they want. Unfortunately, eliminating them is nearly impossible as they are deeply embedded in civilian areas.
  - bluish29 3y ago
    Your argument that they want this war crimes to initiate a regional war is funny. Why would you even go all this direction while an easier and more logical reason is that they are fighting for a Palestinian state [1]. And its funny that you put the blame on war crimes on anyone except who make them. No one is ever forced to make war crimes. If it is done, the perpetrators are never considered the victims at least in a sane world. What I can see your comment is some version of, these savage people are forcing nice people at the Isreali army to make war crimes. So the victims in this story are the poor Isreali soldiers who have to kill all these people and might suffer emotionally as a result!! [1] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
    - invalidname 3y ago
      > they are fighting for a Palestinian state If they were fighting for a Palestinian state they would have collaborated on the Oslo accord which was leading there. Or they would have waited for the state to form and then taken over that state. I suggest you read the link that you provided. Read it. E.g. > Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. They want the entire country. Not a separate state of their own. They know they can't get to their goal with a direct conflict against a far superior fighting force, so they use this approach. > No one is ever forced to make war crimes. I didn't say that. I said the Hamas is hoping for that or at least something they can present as war crimes. It's actually pretty easy to incite violence and rage. Just burning families with their babies alive pretty much does that to people. > If it is done, the perpetrators are never considered the victims at least in a sane world. Sane? Have you seen the pictures and read the stories of what they did? They are now surrounded by a lot of soldiers who read these things and are furious. That's no excuse for war crimes but all it takes are a few soldiers who go a bit too far. > What I can see your comment is some version of, these savage people are forcing nice people at the Isreali army to make war crimes. That's very selective reading. Israeli army soldiers did lots of bad things. This is documented mostly by Israeli groups e.g. https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.ahimlaneshek.org/ https://www.ahimlaneshek.org/ And many others. But here's the difference, it's a country of laws. Things get reported and even soldiers can be tried for crimes. Does Israel have a perfect record? No. But it's pretty good even when compared to other liberal democracies such as the USA. I never said or implied that the Palestinian people aren't victims. They are caught between the Hamas and Israel. The thing that bothers me is that people blame Israel for this conflict when the blame should be on Hamas first by a HUGE margin then on Israel. There's justified grievances to have against Israel (especially the current administration which is downright criminal), but this should be a footnote after the blame on the Hamas.

LindeBuzoGray 3y ago

Israel had a role in creating and incubating Hamas directly, as senior Israelis have admitted. Haaretz recently printed how Netanyahu also was encouraging Hamas as he wanted war and west Bank settlement, not to make deals with Fatah.

invalidname 3y ago
100%. I would argue that's probably its biggest crime. Specifically why Benjamin Netanyahu is pure evil.

dopamean 3y ago

Honest question because I'm not super educated on this matter... I keep hearing all this awful stuff about Hamas: they use human shields, they're launching rockets from hospitals and churches, they dont care about the lives of Palestinian people. The only people I ever hear making these claims are Israelis and pro-Israeli westerners. I haven't heard any of these claims from Palestinian people. If it was true that they're being used as human shields by these awful thugs that are ruining their lives wouldn't there be more of an outcry against them by Palestinians? Maybe that's happening and I'm just not seeing it?

invalidname 3y ago
Plenty of Palestinians and Arabs talk about that but they get very little press. Probably most famous is Mosab: https://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinkable/dp/1414333080 https://www.amazon.com/Son-Hamas-Gripping-Political-Unthinka...
grumple 3y ago
The majority of Palestinians support Hamas and violence against Jews. You can find recent polls: https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87 https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8... https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2086%20English%20fulltext%20Dec2022.pdf https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2086%20English%20... (warning, pdf) If you want to learn more about the way Palestinians and Hamas interact, look up "Son of Hamas", a book by the Palestinian son of one of the founders of Hamas. Here's an interview with him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v738Wogza0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v738Wogza0 That's a good start. You can find reports of rockets launched from civilian areas on your own. I'm sure you can find others condemning Hamas. But the reason there isn't more obvious outcry is because Palestinians are largely supportive, and those that aren't don't exactly have robust freedom of speech protections - speaking out can get you killed. And the media doesn't seem to like portraying Palestine as anything other than a monoculture.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  First off, 45% of the population of Gaza is below the age of 15. Secondly, https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-before-it-attacked-israel-surveys-showed-gazans-cared-more-about-fighting-poverty-than-armed-resistance-215640 https://theconversation.com/hamas-was-unpopular-in-gaza-befo... > Support of armed resistance was not always present. When Hamas openly fought the Palestinian Authority – which governs the West Bank and questioned the legitimacy of Hamas’ victory – and seized control over the Gaza Strip in 2007, over 73% of Palestinians opposed that seizure and any further armed conflict. > At that time, fewer than one-third of Gazans supported any military action against Israel. Over 80% condemned kidnapping, arson and indiscriminate violence. > If read over time, polls of Gazans from 2007 to 2023 tell a story. They help make clear that Gazan support for armed resistance grew alongside increasing frustration, anger and a sense of hopelessness with any political solution to their suffering. It's very easy to judge people born into what is essentially the largest open-air prison in the world for being able to be driven mad, blow by blow by blow. You think you'd fare better?

legulere 3y ago

I agree with you on Hamas, but what do you think about the PLO which used to be designated a terrorist organisation?

invalidname 3y ago
I'm one of the Naaive people who think the Oslo accord would have worked if the Hamas was stopped and if Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn't have sabotaged it from the other side. Unfortunately, today they are weakened due to terrible Israeli policy (specifically by Netanyahu). I hope Israelis understand that mistake but I'm not very optimistic. I hope that after the dust settles Netanyahu will be gone and who ever is in charge will come to a reasonable agreement with the PLO. However, I'm not very optimistic. I think they have a more justified claim since the west bank has been expanding settlements (against Israeli law).

isykt 3y ago

What do you think Hamas thinks?

invalidname 3y ago
They are conducting a religious Jihad. Their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel and an Islamic state in the area. They want to outcast every Jew living in the region. That is part of their charter. In this conflict their goal was to start a regional war by inflaming Jordan, Egypt, etc. This would make them dissolve the peace agreement and go back to an all out war. To do that they need Israeli war crimes at a terrible scale especially against their own civilians. They are using the bombings as propaganda to further their goals. Netanyahu is an idiot who (as usual) gives them exactly what they want. Unfortunately, eliminating them is nearly impossible as they are deeply embedded in civilian areas.
- bluish29 3y ago
  Your argument that they want this war crimes to initiate a regional war is funny. Why would you even go all this direction while an easier and more logical reason is that they are fighting for a Palestinian state [1]. And its funny that you put the blame on war crimes on anyone except who make them. No one is ever forced to make war crimes. If it is done, the perpetrators are never considered the victims at least in a sane world. What I can see your comment is some version of, these savage people are forcing nice people at the Isreali army to make war crimes. So the victims in this story are the poor Isreali soldiers who have to kill all these people and might suffer emotionally as a result!! [1] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
  - invalidname 3y ago
    > they are fighting for a Palestinian state If they were fighting for a Palestinian state they would have collaborated on the Oslo accord which was leading there. Or they would have waited for the state to form and then taken over that state. I suggest you read the link that you provided. Read it. E.g. > Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. They want the entire country. Not a separate state of their own. They know they can't get to their goal with a direct conflict against a far superior fighting force, so they use this approach. > No one is ever forced to make war crimes. I didn't say that. I said the Hamas is hoping for that or at least something they can present as war crimes. It's actually pretty easy to incite violence and rage. Just burning families with their babies alive pretty much does that to people. > If it is done, the perpetrators are never considered the victims at least in a sane world. Sane? Have you seen the pictures and read the stories of what they did? They are now surrounded by a lot of soldiers who read these things and are furious. That's no excuse for war crimes but all it takes are a few soldiers who go a bit too far. > What I can see your comment is some version of, these savage people are forcing nice people at the Isreali army to make war crimes. That's very selective reading. Israeli army soldiers did lots of bad things. This is documented mostly by Israeli groups e.g. https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.ahimlaneshek.org/ https://www.ahimlaneshek.org/ And many others. But here's the difference, it's a country of laws. Things get reported and even soldiers can be tried for crimes. Does Israel have a perfect record? No. But it's pretty good even when compared to other liberal democracies such as the USA. I never said or implied that the Palestinian people aren't victims. They are caught between the Hamas and Israel. The thing that bothers me is that people blame Israel for this conflict when the blame should be on Hamas first by a HUGE margin then on Israel. There's justified grievances to have against Israel (especially the current administration which is downright criminal), but this should be a footnote after the blame on the Hamas.