3 ms·

That's funny I remember a time not so long ago when just questioning the origin of a virus, or the efficacy of a vaccine got people outed silenced. I remember w

That's funny I remember a time not so long ago when just questioning the origin of a virus, or the efficacy of a vaccine got people outed silenced. I remember when just having discussions around if men should be allowed to compete in women's spaces got people blacklisted and shamed. I remember once when a landscaper that made the okay sign was fired from his job because everyone on the internet reached out to his employer to tell them he was a white supermacist when he had no idea what was going on. But you're right now we should have nuance, and distinction when shaming and doxxing people who are wrong.

plagiarist 3y ago
"Questioning," is an odd way to spell, "making assertions with zero supporting evidence as an excuse to refuse to wear a 1-ply cotton cloth in public." I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. I saw plenty of people saying it is deadly and/or will grow spikes on one's testicles or ovaries. It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset.
- Proziam 3y ago
  > I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine There is just about a zero percent chance this is true. Many people were openly frustrated that the vaccinated would still get and spread covid despite originally being told that wouldn't happen. The "jab kills you" thing didn't gain traction until after the official narrative changed from "You won't get covid" -> "You won't get as sick from covid"
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    The "official narrative" changed when new variants of the virus spread and behaved differently. "Delta won't hospitalize you but you can still catch this new omega (it's not as bad)," is still very effective. Retconning it to pretend like "the narrative" radically changed for no reason is another problem when discussing things with people who are intentionally dishonest.
    - Proziam 3y ago
      Attributing my perspective to dishonesty seems, well, dishonest. The fact is that members of this forum are broadly more informed and versed in statistics when compared to the general public. The general population, through typical news sources (which are infamously bad at being accurate on scientific topics), was exposed to a cacophony of information of wildly varied quality. One small set of examples from what I consider to be reasonable sources (CDC, WHO, some papers, and two mainstream news publications): [1] The original official estimates for death rate were off by an order of magnitude or more. [2] Then the government said masks don't work. Then the government said masks do work. [3-5] Then the government said they "miscounted" several relevant stats (cases, deaths, etc) several times. Then the advice was booster shots, as it was being discussed that the vaccine wasn't effective enough. [6-7] And as all of this went on, the public was becoming aware of varying governing bodies from all around the world disagreeing about strategy/effectiveness. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/ - Therefore, the case fatality rate (CFR) has been increasing over time, resulting in a high overall estimate of 5.25% (95% CI: 4.98–5.51%). [2] https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45 https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8... - While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. [3] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/cdc-coding-error-overcount-covid-deaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/cdc-coding-err... [4] - https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-officials-knew-coronavirus-test-was-flawed-but-released-it-anyway https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-official... [5] - "We documented 25 instances when the CDC reported statistical or numerical errors. Twenty (80%) of these instances exaggerated the severity of the COVID-19 situation, 3 (12%) instances simultaneously exaggerated and downplayed the severity of the situation, one error was neutral, and one error exaggerated COVID-19 vaccine risks. The CDC was notified about the errors in 16 (64%) instances, and later corrected the errors, at least partially, in 13 (52%) instances. " - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4381627#maincontent https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4381627#... [6] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo... [7] - https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o108 https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o108
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  > I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. Hmm? I remember getting shit on for simply pointing out that the obsession about it is pointless, since it did precious little to stop transmission. They protected the people who got them, and in that sense misinformation was harmful, but I remember restaurants where you couldn't eat inside without 2 vaccinations plus booster, even with a mask. Which was insane and stupid, and people who just went along absolutely did not enjoy that being pointed out. I got 2 vaccinations, by the time I should have gotten the booster I didn't. Not because I was worried about it, out of sheer spite. I don't do goosestep. I don't eat in restaurants either, I was not personally inconvenienced by any of this -- but I saw it, and made a choice to no longer be part of it. Heck, I remember asking what possible good those contact tracing apps would do me, since I lived in self-imposed near-quarantine already (I didn't care who was vaccinated and who wasn't, I simply assumed everyone had Covid, including me). I got called a murderer for asking that, nearly literally. > It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset. Then don't pretend what I saw with my own eyes doesn't exist and didn't take place.
  - plagiarist 3y ago
    It was effective against some of the strains and less effective against others. You want to pretend that the vaccine is worthless to the point that you should be allowed to wander around entering whatever shared space while people are still dying of the original strain? No wonder you were "shit on." To this day one can easily have a discussion even on HN with someone who will tell you that, "nobody with any significant amount of life remaining ever dies of covid, so what's the problem?" You're not getting boosted out of spite? Great job, that'll show 'em.
    - johnnyworker 3y ago
      > You want to pretend that the vaccine is worthless in reply to > They protected the people who got them, and in that sense misinformation was harmful You so showed me haha. > To this day one can easily have a discussion even on HN with someone who will tell you that, "nobody with any significant amount of life remaining ever dies of covid, so what's the problem?" Yeah, but you don't get to have that imaginary discussion with me. Make up whatever you want about me, and then keep it to yourself.

plagiarist 3y ago

"Questioning," is an odd way to spell, "making assertions with zero supporting evidence as an excuse to refuse to wear a 1-ply cotton cloth in public." I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. I saw plenty of people saying it is deadly and/or will grow spikes on one's testicles or ovaries. It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset.

Proziam 3y ago
> I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine There is just about a zero percent chance this is true. Many people were openly frustrated that the vaccinated would still get and spread covid despite originally being told that wouldn't happen. The "jab kills you" thing didn't gain traction until after the official narrative changed from "You won't get covid" -> "You won't get as sick from covid"
- plagiarist 3y ago
  The "official narrative" changed when new variants of the virus spread and behaved differently. "Delta won't hospitalize you but you can still catch this new omega (it's not as bad)," is still very effective. Retconning it to pretend like "the narrative" radically changed for no reason is another problem when discussing things with people who are intentionally dishonest.
  - Proziam 3y ago
    Attributing my perspective to dishonesty seems, well, dishonest. The fact is that members of this forum are broadly more informed and versed in statistics when compared to the general public. The general population, through typical news sources (which are infamously bad at being accurate on scientific topics), was exposed to a cacophony of information of wildly varied quality. One small set of examples from what I consider to be reasonable sources (CDC, WHO, some papers, and two mainstream news publications): [1] The original official estimates for death rate were off by an order of magnitude or more. [2] Then the government said masks don't work. Then the government said masks do work. [3-5] Then the government said they "miscounted" several relevant stats (cases, deaths, etc) several times. Then the advice was booster shots, as it was being discussed that the vaccine wasn't effective enough. [6-7] And as all of this went on, the public was becoming aware of varying governing bodies from all around the world disagreeing about strategy/effectiveness. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/ - Therefore, the case fatality rate (CFR) has been increasing over time, resulting in a high overall estimate of 5.25% (95% CI: 4.98–5.51%). [2] https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45 https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8... - While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. [3] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/cdc-coding-error-overcount-covid-deaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/cdc-coding-err... [4] - https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-officials-knew-coronavirus-test-was-flawed-but-released-it-anyway https://www.npr.org/2020/11/06/929078678/cdc-report-official... [5] - "We documented 25 instances when the CDC reported statistical or numerical errors. Twenty (80%) of these instances exaggerated the severity of the COVID-19 situation, 3 (12%) instances simultaneously exaggerated and downplayed the severity of the situation, one error was neutral, and one error exaggerated COVID-19 vaccine risks. The CDC was notified about the errors in 16 (64%) instances, and later corrected the errors, at least partially, in 13 (52%) instances. " - https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4381627#maincontent https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4381627#... [6] - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says#xj4y7vzkg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-bo... [7] - https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o108 https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o108
johnnyworker 3y ago
> I never saw anyone question the efficacy of the vaccine. Hmm? I remember getting shit on for simply pointing out that the obsession about it is pointless, since it did precious little to stop transmission. They protected the people who got them, and in that sense misinformation was harmful, but I remember restaurants where you couldn't eat inside without 2 vaccinations plus booster, even with a mask. Which was insane and stupid, and people who just went along absolutely did not enjoy that being pointed out. I got 2 vaccinations, by the time I should have gotten the booster I didn't. Not because I was worried about it, out of sheer spite. I don't do goosestep. I don't eat in restaurants either, I was not personally inconvenienced by any of this -- but I saw it, and made a choice to no longer be part of it. Heck, I remember asking what possible good those contact tracing apps would do me, since I lived in self-imposed near-quarantine already (I didn't care who was vaccinated and who wasn't, I simply assumed everyone had Covid, including me). I got called a murderer for asking that, nearly literally. > It's hard to have nuance with people who are participating dishonestly from the outset. Then don't pretend what I saw with my own eyes doesn't exist and didn't take place.
- plagiarist 3y ago
  It was effective against some of the strains and less effective against others. You want to pretend that the vaccine is worthless to the point that you should be allowed to wander around entering whatever shared space while people are still dying of the original strain? No wonder you were "shit on." To this day one can easily have a discussion even on HN with someone who will tell you that, "nobody with any significant amount of life remaining ever dies of covid, so what's the problem?" You're not getting boosted out of spite? Great job, that'll show 'em.
  - johnnyworker 3y ago
    > You want to pretend that the vaccine is worthless in reply to > They protected the people who got them, and in that sense misinformation was harmful You so showed me haha. > To this day one can easily have a discussion even on HN with someone who will tell you that, "nobody with any significant amount of life remaining ever dies of covid, so what's the problem?" Yeah, but you don't get to have that imaginary discussion with me. Make up whatever you want about me, and then keep it to yourself.