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> Maybe it does in Wayland, I dunno. And there lies the problem with linux. You basically have to know how it works to use it and maintain it. You, at the ver

> Maybe it does in Wayland, I dunno. And there lies the problem with linux. You basically have to know how it works to use it and maintain it. You, at the very least, have to be a lightweight diy computer technician (or have someone you know like this) to figure out some intractable issues, like "copy paste isn't working" or "my screen is black." You can be actively hostile to learning desktop computing and still kinda muddle through using Windows. I have yet to find a distro I would, say, trust with my mother or some former work colleagues, but immutable distros like Fedora Kionite are getting closer.

jerf 3y ago
Along with the fact you took away the exact opposite of the point I was making, which is that real people and real use cases are Just Working more and more often for Linux, Windows is no longer a maintenance free paradise either. Well, I mean, it never really was the paradise that it is often presented as in the Linux vs. Windows debate. I don't know where you're getting the idea that a normal user can fix "my screen is black". I've fixed a lot of relative's Windows machines over the years, in ways that often involved some relatively deep web searching and wizardry. That's just ahistorical garbage. But now even a baseline and otherwise functioning install of Windows does not start out user friendly. It is a nightmare of popup hell that none of my family like to use, and I must deduct major points from considering the user a monetization source and stuffing ads down through your operating system. Thanks to the marketer's decisions, Windows is simply not a 10/10 automatic default choice anymore, and the first derivative is clearly negative. More and more Microsoft wants me to upgrade Windows so they can grab more stuff and more things to stuff ads into, not because they're bringing their users any value.
vladvasiliu 3y ago
I'm not sure what your point is. Jerf is presumably not using wayland nor a Zoom developer, so not knowing whether something works on some other random system (as in "not used by me") isn't exactly a problem with Linux. > You, at the very least, have to be a lightweight diy computer technician (or have someone you know like this) to figure out some intractable issues, like "copy paste isn't working" or "my screen is black." This can happen on all systems. My HP-recommends-windows-11 laptop had a "my webcam is not detected" issue for a full year after I bought it. It worked fine out of the box on Linux, so the hardware wasn't defective. My it-just-works MacBook Pro became terribly laggy and had blinking patches on the external screen after some update. Hell, I even knew what the issue was (botched nvidia drivers) but there wasn't much I could do about it. A different it-just-works MacBook Pro had the "my screen is black" issue. I also knew what the issue was – shoddy soldering job of the GPU. Nothing I could do about it except, paradoxically, slap a Linux on it which could be convinced to not turn on the dGPU and would happily run on the iGPU exclusively. Computers just suck sometimes.
JohnFen 3y ago
> You basically have to know how it works to use it and maintain it. Not really, at least not any more so than with any other OS. Linux hasn't been that way for a long time, unless you're using a distro specifically intended for a more technical audience.

jerf 3y ago

Along with the fact you took away the exact opposite of the point I was making, which is that real people and real use cases are Just Working more and more often for Linux, Windows is no longer a maintenance free paradise either. Well, I mean, it never really was the paradise that it is often presented as in the Linux vs. Windows debate. I don't know where you're getting the idea that a normal user can fix "my screen is black". I've fixed a lot of relative's Windows machines over the years, in ways that often involved some relatively deep web searching and wizardry. That's just ahistorical garbage. But now even a baseline and otherwise functioning install of Windows does not start out user friendly. It is a nightmare of popup hell that none of my family like to use, and I must deduct major points from considering the user a monetization source and stuffing ads down through your operating system. Thanks to the marketer's decisions, Windows is simply not a 10/10 automatic default choice anymore, and the first derivative is clearly negative. More and more Microsoft wants me to upgrade Windows so they can grab more stuff and more things to stuff ads into, not because they're bringing their users any value.

vladvasiliu 3y ago

I'm not sure what your point is. Jerf is presumably not using wayland nor a Zoom developer, so not knowing whether something works on some other random system (as in "not used by me") isn't exactly a problem with Linux. > You, at the very least, have to be a lightweight diy computer technician (or have someone you know like this) to figure out some intractable issues, like "copy paste isn't working" or "my screen is black." This can happen on all systems. My HP-recommends-windows-11 laptop had a "my webcam is not detected" issue for a full year after I bought it. It worked fine out of the box on Linux, so the hardware wasn't defective. My it-just-works MacBook Pro became terribly laggy and had blinking patches on the external screen after some update. Hell, I even knew what the issue was (botched nvidia drivers) but there wasn't much I could do about it. A different it-just-works MacBook Pro had the "my screen is black" issue. I also knew what the issue was – shoddy soldering job of the GPU. Nothing I could do about it except, paradoxically, slap a Linux on it which could be convinced to not turn on the dGPU and would happily run on the iGPU exclusively. Computers just suck sometimes.

JohnFen 3y ago

> You basically have to know how it works to use it and maintain it. Not really, at least not any more so than with any other OS. Linux hasn't been that way for a long time, unless you're using a distro specifically intended for a more technical audience.