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Toyota has been going hard on this story, no surprise since they dug a grave of irrelevance by anchoring themselves to hydrogen for decades. Even when it was cl

Toyota has been going hard on this story, no surprise since they dug a grave of irrelevance by anchoring themselves to hydrogen for decades. Even when it was clear EVs were the future and interest in hydrogen was barely registering. Also no surprise that they have nothing to show except a "just wait 5 years!".

moomoo11 3y ago
Would hydrogen make sense for really heavy vehicles like bus or truck, or even train? I think for cars it isn’t the most convenient. But at the same time hydrogen would be cool if it works because it’s so abundant. And it’s pretty cool that the hydrogen cars exhaust water.
- jansan 3y ago
  Hydrogen can only work if the infrastructure is available. If you have a few hubs with a lot of traffic between them, it could make a lot of sense. Having said this, I have seen quite a few Toyota Mirai taxis in Berlin. I am wondering if they ever have range anxiety or problems finding a fuel station.
- adrianN 3y ago
  At least for trains, batteries are already preferable to hydrogen and the technology is still being improved.
jeffbee 3y ago
> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.
- adrianN 3y ago
  A company often does best right before its terminal decline. Betting on the wrong horse for too long is usually not a good sign.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  It's probably people abstracting from their own limited experience only
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  It would probably make most sense to compare their EV sales to other companies EV sales. However I am sure that there are at least a few execs at toyota with your line of thinking: "Our ICE cars are selling better than ever, why are we wasting money on EV development?"
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    The all-time, cumulative amount of batteries sold in Toyota hybrid cars is similar in scale to the amount of batteries ever sold by Tesla. Until about 2 years ago, Toyota was ahead in this metric.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      Sure, Tesla has hybrid sales of zero. It doesn't make golf cart battery packs and electric bike motors. Toyota is great at making (buying off the shelf) those things and connecting them to gas motors. However, toyota is not great at making EVs and only now is releasing their first (very mediocre) EV. Probably because a hybrid and EV are very different under the hood.
      - audunw 3y ago
        Not their first. They were actually quite early with an EV. Though I can understand if you don’t think it counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
        Workaccount2 3y ago
        Yes, I was wrong, it counts. Now please address their sales of EVs.
- belltaco 3y ago
  And they're spending a chunk of that money on lobbying governments around the world to reduce pollution standards so they will probably keep raking in the profits on ICE vehicles while the planet warms up and they keep making press releases about allegedly imminent battery tech. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-climate-lobbying-as-protestors-storm-vw-annual-meeting/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-c...
- jbm 3y ago
  Some of us remember when people similarly said that about GM. Regardless, we'll see what happens in 5 years. The best outcome is that they are truthful about this development.
  - jeffbee 3y ago
    Some of us probably have very warped perceptions about what happened to the Big 3, since humans are susceptible to The Narrative®. GM has never lost its market share leader position in America, and the Big 3 had majority market share until 2008. This, despite the fact that they manufactured pure garbage from 1971-present. That is why I try not to call anything too early. If you had looked at the situation in 1965 and said "50 years from now, Japan and US will contend for market leadership" that would have been accurate. If you had said then "GM has buried itself in a grave of irrelevance", you would have been extremely wrong.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  A planet where you’d be fool to buy a dumb ice car, where Tesla’s competition is cringe or a complete joke

moomoo11 3y ago

Would hydrogen make sense for really heavy vehicles like bus or truck, or even train? I think for cars it isn’t the most convenient. But at the same time hydrogen would be cool if it works because it’s so abundant. And it’s pretty cool that the hydrogen cars exhaust water.

jansan 3y ago
Hydrogen can only work if the infrastructure is available. If you have a few hubs with a lot of traffic between them, it could make a lot of sense. Having said this, I have seen quite a few Toyota Mirai taxis in Berlin. I am wondering if they ever have range anxiety or problems finding a fuel station.
adrianN 3y ago
At least for trains, batteries are already preferable to hydrogen and the technology is still being improved.

jeffbee 3y ago

> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.

adrianN 3y ago
A company often does best right before its terminal decline. Betting on the wrong horse for too long is usually not a good sign.
master-lincoln 3y ago
It's probably people abstracting from their own limited experience only
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Workaccount2 3y ago
It would probably make most sense to compare their EV sales to other companies EV sales. However I am sure that there are at least a few execs at toyota with your line of thinking: "Our ICE cars are selling better than ever, why are we wasting money on EV development?"
- jeffbee 3y ago
  The all-time, cumulative amount of batteries sold in Toyota hybrid cars is similar in scale to the amount of batteries ever sold by Tesla. Until about 2 years ago, Toyota was ahead in this metric.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    Sure, Tesla has hybrid sales of zero. It doesn't make golf cart battery packs and electric bike motors. Toyota is great at making (buying off the shelf) those things and connecting them to gas motors. However, toyota is not great at making EVs and only now is releasing their first (very mediocre) EV. Probably because a hybrid and EV are very different under the hood.
    - audunw 3y ago
      Not their first. They were actually quite early with an EV. Though I can understand if you don’t think it counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
      - Workaccount2 3y ago
        Yes, I was wrong, it counts. Now please address their sales of EVs.
belltaco 3y ago
And they're spending a chunk of that money on lobbying governments around the world to reduce pollution standards so they will probably keep raking in the profits on ICE vehicles while the planet warms up and they keep making press releases about allegedly imminent battery tech. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-climate-lobbying-as-protestors-storm-vw-annual-meeting/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-c...
jbm 3y ago
Some of us remember when people similarly said that about GM. Regardless, we'll see what happens in 5 years. The best outcome is that they are truthful about this development.
- jeffbee 3y ago
  Some of us probably have very warped perceptions about what happened to the Big 3, since humans are susceptible to The Narrative®. GM has never lost its market share leader position in America, and the Big 3 had majority market share until 2008. This, despite the fact that they manufactured pure garbage from 1971-present. That is why I try not to call anything too early. If you had looked at the situation in 1965 and said "50 years from now, Japan and US will contend for market leadership" that would have been accurate. If you had said then "GM has buried itself in a grave of irrelevance", you would have been extremely wrong.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
A planet where you’d be fool to buy a dumb ice car, where Tesla’s competition is cringe or a complete joke