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> At least Sonoma has the excuse that a lot of that flab is for giant 4k drone footage of vapid countryside masquerading as active backgrounds. Although, let's

> At least Sonoma has the excuse that a lot of that flab is for giant 4k drone footage of vapid countryside masquerading as active backgrounds. Although, let's be honest, the reality is that it's Tim Cook's punishment to users who didn't shell out the cash for that extra, hugely overpriced SSD option. Don't believe us? Try to remove them. Well, that's a dumb and misinformed argument. Only the one out of the box is included with macOS - the rest are download on demand. > Look at Windows 11's sluggish take-up, largely because it's Windows 10 demanding you buy it a new computer. Actually, it's been widely reported that Windows 11 take-up is widely exceeding Microsoft's projections.

aeadio 3y ago
> Well, that's a dumb and misinformed argument. Only the one out of the box is included with macOS - the rest are download on demand. ... and cleaned up automatically when more free space is needed.
- postmodest 3y ago
  But: still downloaded anyway even if you select a limited bandwidth network...
ToucanLoucan 3y ago
I actually quite like Windows 11. It feels like Windows 10 with a lot less strange, incomplete and broken features. Having more options for window-tiling especially on my multi-monitor setup are a godsend, and miles ahead of the same system in 10 which in addition to not having the aforementioned additional options, also just kind of broke a lot and didn't work correctly. Additionally I like the Mac Dock-esque revamp for the taskbar, and though it still has an annoying number of UI conventions that one snakes through like exploring the layers of Aperture labs, the new ones are actually quite nice, very usable, and don't feel like simply a barrier I must pass to access the settings I actually want. My sole beef is that changing audio outputs now takes four clicks instead of three as they buried that button next to the volume control in whatever they're calling Command Center. But that's not a huge issue. It wasn't a massive upgrade to be sure, but it was the first Windows release in awhile where it felt like an overall improvement to the experience across the board. Everything is a little shinier, a little better done, a little polished, etc. I wish more were like it. Edit: Cohesive, that's the word I was looking for. It feels much more cohesive than 10, or really any of them since like 7. It feels like something that was actually designed for purpose, not just a mashing together of the various outputs of various departments.
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  There are lots of little issues I have with the new Task bar, like for example why does the calendar only appear when you click the clock on the primary monitor? Windows 10 any clock I clicked would give me a calendar, now in win 11 it is only the primary
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    Honestly not sure? I only use my taskbar on the primary monitor.
eviks 3y ago
> Only the one out of the box is included with macOS 1. one too many. 2. What about all the other non-removable wallpapers, apps and other useless-to-many OS components and data like graphics drivers for graphic cards that you'll never have on your locked down laptop? > Actually, it's been widely reported that Windows 11 take-up is widely exceeding Microsoft's projections. Actually, the author is not required to use MS's projections as the basis for his own judgement
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  > 1. one too many. 2. What about all the other non-removable wallpapers, apps and other useless-to-many OS components and data like graphics drivers for graphic cards that you'll never have on your locked down laptop? Well, two can play at that game. Do you want me to make a list of all the drivers that come with a Linux installation that you will never use? What about packages? How much backwards compatibility within those packages is included that you will never use either? Fedora and Ubuntu come with like 2 dozen background images out of the box, everyone knows it shouldn't come with any and I should provide my own. Most Linux installations still come with drivers for floppy disks, those space-wasting maniacs! Also, "locked down laptop" is a common nonsense argument because booting into Recovery Mode and doing `sudo csrutil disable` is all it takes to disable SIP and be able to mount the root partition. If you want to disable Gatekeeper, it's `sudo spctl --master-disable`. Super locked down, I tell you, when 2 commands is all it takes to burst all the locks. Saying macOS is locked down only shows the ignorance of the person saying it. Windows is arguably more locked down because it will violently prevent you from changing anything that the internal SYSTEM user doesn't want you to do.
  - eviks 3y ago
    You can't play this game since you're too ignorant as to the nature of the game. The Win/Linux part is irrelevant in this conversation about whether an argument about MacOS is "dumb and misinformed", and is actually reinforcing the author's point since he also claims it's a common issue across OS > `sudo csrutil disable` is all it takes to disable SIP and be able to mount the root partition > Saying macOS is locked down only shows the ignorance of the person saying it. Oh, the irony of an ignorant calling out the ignorance. It used to be that "simple" (though you still had to waste time figuring out which spread-out junk was safe to delete). But it isn't that simple any more with the newer OS, it's much more, yes, locked down, since you forgot about that minor crypto-signed thingy called Signed System Volume (SSV) (https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/30/is-big-surs-system-volume-sealed/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/30/is-big-surs-system-volum...) You can check some more complicated setup here https://nektony.com/how-to/uninstall-default-apple-apps-on-mac#why-are-default-apple-apps-protected-from-being-removed https://nektony.com/how-to/uninstall-default-apple-apps-on-m..., but then it's much more involved, but also more risky, and then there are still updates..

aeadio 3y ago

> Well, that's a dumb and misinformed argument. Only the one out of the box is included with macOS - the rest are download on demand. ... and cleaned up automatically when more free space is needed.

postmodest 3y ago
But: still downloaded anyway even if you select a limited bandwidth network...

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

I actually quite like Windows 11. It feels like Windows 10 with a lot less strange, incomplete and broken features. Having more options for window-tiling especially on my multi-monitor setup are a godsend, and miles ahead of the same system in 10 which in addition to not having the aforementioned additional options, also just kind of broke a lot and didn't work correctly. Additionally I like the Mac Dock-esque revamp for the taskbar, and though it still has an annoying number of UI conventions that one snakes through like exploring the layers of Aperture labs, the new ones are actually quite nice, very usable, and don't feel like simply a barrier I must pass to access the settings I actually want. My sole beef is that changing audio outputs now takes four clicks instead of three as they buried that button next to the volume control in whatever they're calling Command Center. But that's not a huge issue. It wasn't a massive upgrade to be sure, but it was the first Windows release in awhile where it felt like an overall improvement to the experience across the board. Everything is a little shinier, a little better done, a little polished, etc. I wish more were like it. Edit: Cohesive, that's the word I was looking for. It feels much more cohesive than 10, or really any of them since like 7. It feels like something that was actually designed for purpose, not just a mashing together of the various outputs of various departments.

phpisthebest 3y ago
There are lots of little issues I have with the new Task bar, like for example why does the calendar only appear when you click the clock on the primary monitor? Windows 10 any clock I clicked would give me a calendar, now in win 11 it is only the primary
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Honestly not sure? I only use my taskbar on the primary monitor.

eviks 3y ago

> Only the one out of the box is included with macOS 1. one too many. 2. What about all the other non-removable wallpapers, apps and other useless-to-many OS components and data like graphics drivers for graphic cards that you'll never have on your locked down laptop? > Actually, it's been widely reported that Windows 11 take-up is widely exceeding Microsoft's projections. Actually, the author is not required to use MS's projections as the basis for his own judgement

gjsman-1000 3y ago
> 1. one too many. 2. What about all the other non-removable wallpapers, apps and other useless-to-many OS components and data like graphics drivers for graphic cards that you'll never have on your locked down laptop? Well, two can play at that game. Do you want me to make a list of all the drivers that come with a Linux installation that you will never use? What about packages? How much backwards compatibility within those packages is included that you will never use either? Fedora and Ubuntu come with like 2 dozen background images out of the box, everyone knows it shouldn't come with any and I should provide my own. Most Linux installations still come with drivers for floppy disks, those space-wasting maniacs! Also, "locked down laptop" is a common nonsense argument because booting into Recovery Mode and doing `sudo csrutil disable` is all it takes to disable SIP and be able to mount the root partition. If you want to disable Gatekeeper, it's `sudo spctl --master-disable`. Super locked down, I tell you, when 2 commands is all it takes to burst all the locks. Saying macOS is locked down only shows the ignorance of the person saying it. Windows is arguably more locked down because it will violently prevent you from changing anything that the internal SYSTEM user doesn't want you to do.
- eviks 3y ago
  You can't play this game since you're too ignorant as to the nature of the game. The Win/Linux part is irrelevant in this conversation about whether an argument about MacOS is "dumb and misinformed", and is actually reinforcing the author's point since he also claims it's a common issue across OS > `sudo csrutil disable` is all it takes to disable SIP and be able to mount the root partition > Saying macOS is locked down only shows the ignorance of the person saying it. Oh, the irony of an ignorant calling out the ignorance. It used to be that "simple" (though you still had to waste time figuring out which spread-out junk was safe to delete). But it isn't that simple any more with the newer OS, it's much more, yes, locked down, since you forgot about that minor crypto-signed thingy called Signed System Volume (SSV) (https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/30/is-big-surs-system-volume-sealed/ https://eclecticlight.co/2020/11/30/is-big-surs-system-volum...) You can check some more complicated setup here https://nektony.com/how-to/uninstall-default-apple-apps-on-mac#why-are-default-apple-apps-protected-from-being-removed https://nektony.com/how-to/uninstall-default-apple-apps-on-m..., but then it's much more involved, but also more risky, and then there are still updates..