4 ms·

Genuinely curious, why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? Is a chatbot that talks like a genuinely real perso

by Salgat 3y ago

Genuinely curious, why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? Is a chatbot that talks like a genuinely real person that bad of a thing? (assuming it doesn't tell you go to kill yourself for example)

ethanbond 3y ago
I suspect we're a long way from technology actually being able to trick our brain (all of it) into thinking it's in the presence of real companionship. Similar to why social media, despite "everyone being on there and available to everyone," doesn't seem to mitigate loneliness.
- diggan 3y ago
  > I suspect we're a long way from technology actually being able to trick our brain (all of it) into thinking it's in the presence of real companionship. I remember the first time I played Echo VR. I'm not sure it was because I wasn't used to VR, because of the duration I played the first time or what, but the first minutes after removing the VR headset, I had some sort of disassociation with my arms in real-life. That must have been back in 2017/2018 sometime. Add in current generation of voice recognition and generation, better performance for both headsets and the games themselves, LLM to help the "partner" to feel more alive regarding behavior and I think you could get pretty close to "fooling" someone if they use it enough. I'd guess something like that would make loneliness worse in the world though, rather than better.
droopyEyelids 3y ago
matters for the survival of our species. In our current world of seeming abundance, it's hard (for me) to wrap my mind around the fact that material considerations are actually important. This is why some people are concerned about shifts in demographics. One example is that societies can reach a point where there are not enough people of working age to provide the services and goods for the "nonworkers" (retired + infirm + students + children) Anything that has the potential to cause a step-decrease in birthrate has the potential to cause a big economic/political disturbance, and a 'distraction' from traditional human relationships definitely has that potential, as people only have so many years where they can reproduce.
- Salgat 3y ago
  I think one exciting side-effect of that is that investment in autonomy would go insane. We're talking countries devoting large portions of their GDP to eliminating menial labor. As of now autonomy has to compete with human labor which is still relatively cheap (down to minimum wage for certain tasks), but once human labor becomes extremely scarce, a lot of autonomy investment becomes profitable. Also, less population is the goal after all, as it helps with sustainability. The human race needs millions, not billions, to safely continue with a healthy genetic diversity.
brookst 3y ago
Well, I'm a big fan of Her, so I won't argue that non-real relationships are implicitly bad. But to the extent (some) people substitute chatbots for real relationships because chatbots are infinitely forgiving and don't promote maturation, I think the harm could be a group of perpetual children who don't have the real-world support structure to deal with real-world issues like needing long term medical care.
CaptWillard 3y ago
One underrated aspect of a real relationship is being on the giving end. I've no doubt that an AI could help me sort things out, but can't imagine a meaningful way to simulate being there for someone. OTOH, it might prove useful in giving advice on how to help others.
mcpackieh 3y ago
> Genuinely curious, why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? It's like having an imaginary girlfriend in your head. If it makes that person happy then why do other people feel bad for the guy? Because although that guy may look happy, and maybe is happy right now, most people don't really believe that's a recipe for happiness in the long term. People see somebody on a path to loneliness and pity them for it.
mcphage 3y ago
> why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? If it does lead to happy, healthy people—maybe it isn't bad. However, I don't have any expectation that it would result in happy or healthy people, and a reasonably strong belief that it would result in the opposite.

by Salgat 3y ago

ethanbond 3y ago

I suspect we're a long way from technology actually being able to trick our brain (all of it) into thinking it's in the presence of real companionship. Similar to why social media, despite "everyone being on there and available to everyone," doesn't seem to mitigate loneliness.

diggan 3y ago
> I suspect we're a long way from technology actually being able to trick our brain (all of it) into thinking it's in the presence of real companionship. I remember the first time I played Echo VR. I'm not sure it was because I wasn't used to VR, because of the duration I played the first time or what, but the first minutes after removing the VR headset, I had some sort of disassociation with my arms in real-life. That must have been back in 2017/2018 sometime. Add in current generation of voice recognition and generation, better performance for both headsets and the games themselves, LLM to help the "partner" to feel more alive regarding behavior and I think you could get pretty close to "fooling" someone if they use it enough. I'd guess something like that would make loneliness worse in the world though, rather than better.

droopyEyelids 3y ago

matters for the survival of our species. In our current world of seeming abundance, it's hard (for me) to wrap my mind around the fact that material considerations are actually important. This is why some people are concerned about shifts in demographics. One example is that societies can reach a point where there are not enough people of working age to provide the services and goods for the "nonworkers" (retired + infirm + students + children) Anything that has the potential to cause a step-decrease in birthrate has the potential to cause a big economic/political disturbance, and a 'distraction' from traditional human relationships definitely has that potential, as people only have so many years where they can reproduce.

Salgat 3y ago
I think one exciting side-effect of that is that investment in autonomy would go insane. We're talking countries devoting large portions of their GDP to eliminating menial labor. As of now autonomy has to compete with human labor which is still relatively cheap (down to minimum wage for certain tasks), but once human labor becomes extremely scarce, a lot of autonomy investment becomes profitable. Also, less population is the goal after all, as it helps with sustainability. The human race needs millions, not billions, to safely continue with a healthy genetic diversity.

brookst 3y ago

Well, I'm a big fan of Her, so I won't argue that non-real relationships are implicitly bad. But to the extent (some) people substitute chatbots for real relationships because chatbots are infinitely forgiving and don't promote maturation, I think the harm could be a group of perpetual children who don't have the real-world support structure to deal with real-world issues like needing long term medical care.

CaptWillard 3y ago

One underrated aspect of a real relationship is being on the giving end. I've no doubt that an AI could help me sort things out, but can't imagine a meaningful way to simulate being there for someone. OTOH, it might prove useful in giving advice on how to help others.

mcpackieh 3y ago

> Genuinely curious, why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? It's like having an imaginary girlfriend in your head. If it makes that person happy then why do other people feel bad for the guy? Because although that guy may look happy, and maybe is happy right now, most people don't really believe that's a recipe for happiness in the long term. People see somebody on a path to loneliness and pity them for it.

mcphage 3y ago

> why does it matter if a relationship is real if the person is happy and mentally healthy? If it does lead to happy, healthy people—maybe it isn't bad. However, I don't have any expectation that it would result in happy or healthy people, and a reasonably strong belief that it would result in the opposite.