4 ms·

I'm confused by this fix, which is a global setting. The formatting and conversion rules should be enabled at the column (or cell) level. I should be able to

I'm confused by this fix, which is a global setting. The formatting and conversion rules should be enabled at the column (or cell) level. I should be able to make a selection and declare the conversion/format ruleset for that selection. Why is this so hard to grasp from a feature perspective?

sandworm101 3y ago
Because they are trying to design software that is "easy to use" for the average person just learning to use the software. So they write software that tries to automatically catagorize things, to jump in and autocomplete small tasks it thinks the user wants. They don't seem to understand that nobody is average. We all have specific needs. Clippy never died. He just stopped announcing himself.
- garyfirestorm 3y ago
  maybe excel is just not the tool for the job?
  - bunderbunder 3y ago
    It's easy for techies to say that because we are more likely than most to have the programming skills necessary to use the bulk of the alternatives.
  - irrational 3y ago
    Do you have a better spreadsheet to recommend?
    - jiaaro 3y ago
      I think the suggestion is that a spreadsheet is the not the right tool for the job. There is very likely value in dedicated genetics-specific software, even in the form of an excel add-on. [edit] Here's one, and it's free: https://biology-assets.anu.edu.au/GenAlEx/Welcome.html https://biology-assets.anu.edu.au/GenAlEx/Welcome.html - so maybe this change from microsoft was necessary
      - garyfirestorm 3y ago
        maybe some statistical analysis software is more useful - for e.g. minitab
  - eli 3y ago
    That's obviously the case, but what would you have Microsoft do about it?
  - martinsnow 3y ago
    Maybe a lot of HN users aren't in the same demographics as the people who use Excel in their day to day jobs. I know, surprising revelation.
  - sandworm101 3y ago
    It isn't. But in many/most circumstances one is not allowed to just run whatever software they want on a work machine. Those days are long gone. Start running your own software in a secure/regulated environment and you will be detected and locked out. So while Excel isn't ever the best tool, for many of us it is the only tool available.
LeifCarrotson 3y ago
You have always been able to fix this on a column/cell level. Hit CTRL+1 -> category -> text (or whatever conversion/format you want): https://i.imgur.com/1mjEF2N.png https://i.imgur.com/1mjEF2N.png The reason this needs to be a global setting is because people want to copy-paste or import plaintext tab-separated or comma-separated data and have it not munge that text by default. Plaintext carries no formatting information.
- gattilorenz 3y ago
  Doesn’t converting it to Text AFTER it’s being treated as Date just convert it to a text representation of the date that is not the same as what you initially specified?
  - LeifCarrotson 3y ago
    Yes, if it's already been converted, it's too late - the original full text that was in the paste buffer or the automatic import from the .csv file that your user just blindly double-clicked is gone. But no, if you first set the formatting of the destination cell to text and subsequently paste in your data, it won't do the conversion. If you're using a Data->From Text/CSV Power Query import that establishes a persistent data source, well, fix your import so that it sets the proper formatting on the destination. But that requires changing the defaults, and given the stickiness of defaults and the number of Excel installs anything that's not the default is going to result in data loss. This does establish global preferences that a system administrator at your college or workplace can change to protect users from themselves. I wish it was the default for new Excel installations, but that's not how they did it.
Tagbert 3y ago
You can already designate a cell a “text” which would block conversion to date or other formats. This problem applies to the default cell format and particularly to data imported from CSV and TXT files.

sandworm101 3y ago

Because they are trying to design software that is "easy to use" for the average person just learning to use the software. So they write software that tries to automatically catagorize things, to jump in and autocomplete small tasks it thinks the user wants. They don't seem to understand that nobody is average. We all have specific needs. Clippy never died. He just stopped announcing himself.

garyfirestorm 3y ago
maybe excel is just not the tool for the job?
- bunderbunder 3y ago
  It's easy for techies to say that because we are more likely than most to have the programming skills necessary to use the bulk of the alternatives.
- irrational 3y ago
  Do you have a better spreadsheet to recommend?
  - jiaaro 3y ago
    I think the suggestion is that a spreadsheet is the not the right tool for the job. There is very likely value in dedicated genetics-specific software, even in the form of an excel add-on. [edit] Here's one, and it's free: https://biology-assets.anu.edu.au/GenAlEx/Welcome.html https://biology-assets.anu.edu.au/GenAlEx/Welcome.html - so maybe this change from microsoft was necessary
    - garyfirestorm 3y ago
      maybe some statistical analysis software is more useful - for e.g. minitab
- eli 3y ago
  That's obviously the case, but what would you have Microsoft do about it?
- martinsnow 3y ago
  Maybe a lot of HN users aren't in the same demographics as the people who use Excel in their day to day jobs. I know, surprising revelation.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  It isn't. But in many/most circumstances one is not allowed to just run whatever software they want on a work machine. Those days are long gone. Start running your own software in a secure/regulated environment and you will be detected and locked out. So while Excel isn't ever the best tool, for many of us it is the only tool available.

LeifCarrotson 3y ago

You have always been able to fix this on a column/cell level. Hit CTRL+1 -> category -> text (or whatever conversion/format you want): https://i.imgur.com/1mjEF2N.png https://i.imgur.com/1mjEF2N.png The reason this needs to be a global setting is because people want to copy-paste or import plaintext tab-separated or comma-separated data and have it not munge that text by default. Plaintext carries no formatting information.

gattilorenz 3y ago
Doesn’t converting it to Text AFTER it’s being treated as Date just convert it to a text representation of the date that is not the same as what you initially specified?
- LeifCarrotson 3y ago
  Yes, if it's already been converted, it's too late - the original full text that was in the paste buffer or the automatic import from the .csv file that your user just blindly double-clicked is gone. But no, if you first set the formatting of the destination cell to text and subsequently paste in your data, it won't do the conversion. If you're using a Data->From Text/CSV Power Query import that establishes a persistent data source, well, fix your import so that it sets the proper formatting on the destination. But that requires changing the defaults, and given the stickiness of defaults and the number of Excel installs anything that's not the default is going to result in data loss. This does establish global preferences that a system administrator at your college or workplace can change to protect users from themselves. I wish it was the default for new Excel installations, but that's not how they did it.

Tagbert 3y ago

You can already designate a cell a “text” which would block conversion to date or other formats. This problem applies to the default cell format and particularly to data imported from CSV and TXT files.