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If the government is taxing firms on manpower at levels intended on discouraging firms from actually using manpower, employees are going to have an even bigger

If the government is taxing firms on manpower at levels intended on discouraging firms from actually using manpower, employees are going to have an even bigger problem funding the takeover of the firm than usual...

derelicta 3y ago
Oh no, I meant nationalising companies instead of simply trying to rely on taxes to solve whatever issues you need to get solved. Gotta attack the root causes instead of the mere symptoms.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  With very few examples, that route didn't work out well much, and in way the "successful" national or state sponsored enterprises where not necessarily nice. That isn't to say public utilities cannot be successful, but starting them by trying to modify something existing instead of devolved (where applicable) and bespoke entities that don't hold the power of the state as such might be a nicer way.
  - derelicta 3y ago
    > With very few example that route didn't work out well much, and in way the "successful" national or state sponsored enterprises where not necessarily nice. Republics come and go, it doesnt mean democracy in itself is a failure. All I am advocating for is the extension of our democratic norms to the economic and production apparatus.
    - RandomLensman 3y ago
      Not sure I understand your connection between nationalized corporations/SEEs and republics. We do have a fair amount of countries with more than just shareholder representations in boards, for example. That said, assuming that just extending democratic norms (TBD) into corporations will help - not sold, why would large and potentially uninformed decision making help?
neilwilson 3y ago
Why? Government spends as well, which means firms get the money in the front end as sales to the government workers. If you use automation to create the output for the government workers with the same amount of employees, then you'll make more profit. Aka productivity, which is what we want.

derelicta 3y ago

Oh no, I meant nationalising companies instead of simply trying to rely on taxes to solve whatever issues you need to get solved. Gotta attack the root causes instead of the mere symptoms.

RandomLensman 3y ago
With very few examples, that route didn't work out well much, and in way the "successful" national or state sponsored enterprises where not necessarily nice. That isn't to say public utilities cannot be successful, but starting them by trying to modify something existing instead of devolved (where applicable) and bespoke entities that don't hold the power of the state as such might be a nicer way.
- derelicta 3y ago
  > With very few example that route didn't work out well much, and in way the "successful" national or state sponsored enterprises where not necessarily nice. Republics come and go, it doesnt mean democracy in itself is a failure. All I am advocating for is the extension of our democratic norms to the economic and production apparatus.
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Not sure I understand your connection between nationalized corporations/SEEs and republics. We do have a fair amount of countries with more than just shareholder representations in boards, for example. That said, assuming that just extending democratic norms (TBD) into corporations will help - not sold, why would large and potentially uninformed decision making help?

neilwilson 3y ago

Why? Government spends as well, which means firms get the money in the front end as sales to the government workers. If you use automation to create the output for the government workers with the same amount of employees, then you'll make more profit. Aka productivity, which is what we want.