6 ms·

How do we as Europeans make sure that this ugly piece of legislation never rears its ugly head again.

f233f2 3y ago
This is pushed by people in the EU who aren't elected, so the only solution is to lobby for our countries to leave the EU.
- Macha 3y ago
  Which of course is why the country that did leave the EU has passed anti-E2EE legislation already while the attempt to do so in the EU is apparently floundering
- radicalbyte 3y ago
  The proposal comes from the Commission but it has to be voted for by the Member States in the European Parliament. They can (and will) demand changes to the text. I've seen this process up close (for a Member State) and it is reliably slow with a reliable amount of ping-pong and battles between the various parties..
  - gamesbrainiac 3y ago
    How do we just kill the bill? This is a terrible piece of legislation through and though and has been masquerading as something to protect childen.
    - rdm_blackhole 3y ago
      You can't and that's the problem. This is Chat Control 2.0, the first bill did not make it through so now they come back with this new iteration. If this one doesn't pass , they'll come back with Chat control 3.0 and so on by next year or the one after.
    - radicalbyte 3y ago
      The way all politics works - by applying political pressure. How? Depends on the sensibilities of the country you live in.
- gamesbrainiac 3y ago
  I'm afraid that your proposition is too extreme. I believe in the European project, and this position seems like we're trying to kill a fly with a bazooka.
  - rdm_blackhole 3y ago
    I am sorry but why do you believe in the European project? Also what is the European project? The EU was a good idea at the start. A bunch of countries wanting to preserve peace and increase trade? Sure sign me up. That's what it was at the start. But now, with the open borders between countries, laws that supersedes state laws, talks about having an army and a desire to turn European countries into the United States of Europe, what is the advantage here? You could have pacts and treaties to foster cooperation and trade. You could share intelligence and help each other out just like any other country in the world does it currently without something like the EU to manage it all.
    - gamesbrainiac 3y ago
      The EU is European Project. I think it's very easy to take the benefits of the EU and our resulting prosperity for granted. We need to actually have some power in the US-EU relationship, and the only way is to combine further. I don't know what that will look like, but I'd like Europe to be able to chart its own course. We know what happens to nations that are at the mercy of countries more powerful.
      - rdm_blackhole 3y ago
        > I think it's very easy to take the benefits of the EU and our resulting prosperity for granted. We need to actually have some power in the US-EU relationship, and the only way is to combine further. You opinion is that the EU is good because the EU is good. You want the United states of Europe. I don't. France, Germany, the Northern European countries were wealthy before the EU became the EU as we know it today. > I don't know what that will look like, but I'd like Europe to be able to chart its own course. We know what happens to nations that are at the mercy of countries more powerful. Yes, Europe, not the EU. That's my point. You can have Europe without the EU. You can have cooperation, trade, security without an overarching apparatus like the EU.
- arp242 3y ago
  Didn't they have a similar law in the UK?
- gpderetta 3y ago
  And then you get this law passed by your local parliament, like it happened in UK?
izacus 3y ago
By continuing to vote for MPs in Parliament which will veto the bill. This is what happened, isn't it?
- andrepd 3y ago
  The European "Parliament" is a body unworthy of its name. Nearly powerless, and a perversion of democracy.
  - gamesbrainiac 3y ago
    I'd like to understand this better. Is the EU parliament incapable of blocking this bill?
    - vaylian 3y ago
      The european parliament can vote the bill down. But that's the last line of defense. The danger is that a lot of politicians will think that it's for the benefit of children (which is nonsense) and will therefore vote in favor of the law. Right now it is actually the council of the EU that is preventing the law from progressing.
    - antiloper 3y ago
      The "nearly powerless" refers to blocking the bill being the only thing the parliament is able to do. The commission can just keep proposing this bill, it only needs to pass the parliament once. Once passed, future parliaments are unable to amend or repeal the bill. The commission only has to win once, while the parliament has to block the bill every single time.
      - arlort 3y ago
        The commission isn't an extraneous entity, if the parliament and member states want a law or amendment the commission will write a proposal. It doesn't "have to" strictly speaking but it would. Framing it like you do is ignoring the fact that the only reason we're here in the first place is because a good chunk of member states and MEPs want this law
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

This is pushed by people in the EU who aren't elected, so the only solution is to lobby for our countries to leave the EU.

Macha 3y ago
Which of course is why the country that did leave the EU has passed anti-E2EE legislation already while the attempt to do so in the EU is apparently floundering
radicalbyte 3y ago
The proposal comes from the Commission but it has to be voted for by the Member States in the European Parliament. They can (and will) demand changes to the text. I've seen this process up close (for a Member State) and it is reliably slow with a reliable amount of ping-pong and battles between the various parties..
- gamesbrainiac 3y ago
  How do we just kill the bill? This is a terrible piece of legislation through and though and has been masquerading as something to protect childen.
  - rdm_blackhole 3y ago
    You can't and that's the problem. This is Chat Control 2.0, the first bill did not make it through so now they come back with this new iteration. If this one doesn't pass , they'll come back with Chat control 3.0 and so on by next year or the one after.
  - radicalbyte 3y ago
    The way all politics works - by applying political pressure. How? Depends on the sensibilities of the country you live in.
gamesbrainiac 3y ago
I'm afraid that your proposition is too extreme. I believe in the European project, and this position seems like we're trying to kill a fly with a bazooka.
- rdm_blackhole 3y ago
  I am sorry but why do you believe in the European project? Also what is the European project? The EU was a good idea at the start. A bunch of countries wanting to preserve peace and increase trade? Sure sign me up. That's what it was at the start. But now, with the open borders between countries, laws that supersedes state laws, talks about having an army and a desire to turn European countries into the United States of Europe, what is the advantage here? You could have pacts and treaties to foster cooperation and trade. You could share intelligence and help each other out just like any other country in the world does it currently without something like the EU to manage it all.
  - gamesbrainiac 3y ago
    The EU is European Project. I think it's very easy to take the benefits of the EU and our resulting prosperity for granted. We need to actually have some power in the US-EU relationship, and the only way is to combine further. I don't know what that will look like, but I'd like Europe to be able to chart its own course. We know what happens to nations that are at the mercy of countries more powerful.
    - rdm_blackhole 3y ago
      > I think it's very easy to take the benefits of the EU and our resulting prosperity for granted. We need to actually have some power in the US-EU relationship, and the only way is to combine further. You opinion is that the EU is good because the EU is good. You want the United states of Europe. I don't. France, Germany, the Northern European countries were wealthy before the EU became the EU as we know it today. > I don't know what that will look like, but I'd like Europe to be able to chart its own course. We know what happens to nations that are at the mercy of countries more powerful. Yes, Europe, not the EU. That's my point. You can have Europe without the EU. You can have cooperation, trade, security without an overarching apparatus like the EU.
arp242 3y ago
Didn't they have a similar law in the UK?
gpderetta 3y ago
And then you get this law passed by your local parliament, like it happened in UK?

izacus 3y ago

By continuing to vote for MPs in Parliament which will veto the bill. This is what happened, isn't it?

andrepd 3y ago
The European "Parliament" is a body unworthy of its name. Nearly powerless, and a perversion of democracy.
- gamesbrainiac 3y ago
  I'd like to understand this better. Is the EU parliament incapable of blocking this bill?
  - vaylian 3y ago
    The european parliament can vote the bill down. But that's the last line of defense. The danger is that a lot of politicians will think that it's for the benefit of children (which is nonsense) and will therefore vote in favor of the law. Right now it is actually the council of the EU that is preventing the law from progressing.
  - antiloper 3y ago
    The "nearly powerless" refers to blocking the bill being the only thing the parliament is able to do. The commission can just keep proposing this bill, it only needs to pass the parliament once. Once passed, future parliaments are unable to amend or repeal the bill. The commission only has to win once, while the parliament has to block the bill every single time.
    - arlort 3y ago
      The commission isn't an extraneous entity, if the parliament and member states want a law or amendment the commission will write a proposal. It doesn't "have to" strictly speaking but it would. Framing it like you do is ignoring the fact that the only reason we're here in the first place is because a good chunk of member states and MEPs want this law

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]