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Real artists ship. I'm very excited about all of Google's cool new projects, but they have a history of shooting themselves in the foot. If these technologies

Real artists ship. I'm very excited about all of Google's cool new projects, but they have a history of shooting themselves in the foot. If these technologies are so far along, why not build a consumer version and get people to pay to be testers?! Then iterate on the concept and keep improving it through successive versions. But that's Apple's game.

jonknee 15y ago
Because you don't ship when it still kills people. Google launches stuff in betas all the time (arguably too much and for too long), but I'm glad they're not out there letting anyone test self driving cars or augmented reality contacts. Apple's difference isn't that they iterate, it's that they don't talk about their new stuff until it ships.
- switz 15y ago
  The automated car has driven over 200,000 miles and has never once been in an accident. I don't know many humans that can live up to that.
  - teej 15y ago
    200k miles is nothing. Over 8 billion vehicle miles are spent per DAY in the US. One person is killed for every 75 million miles driven. 200k miles isn't enough to test every terrain, under every weather condition, in every lighting, etc. There's too many variables in the equation. The Google car won't be truly safe until it has logged 1000x miles.
    - Symmetry 15y ago
      Its not that Google's automated cars haven't been in an fatal crash, its that they haven't been in a crash at all. The US _crash rate_ is a bit over 5 per million miles traveled, you you would expect about one crash in the 200k miles already covered if it was a human driver. The circumstances probably aren't identical, but what evidence we have suggests that these automated vehicles are at least comparably safe to a human driver.
      - doktrin 15y ago
        You can't be serious. The evidence may support it, but the evidence is incredibly limited. Can you imagine the potential liability Google faces if they try to bring this to market without having done due diligence? This is a car, not an iPad.
        tomkin 15y ago
        It really depends on the implementation. You're assuming that all of the functionality has been revealed. For example, it's not completely out of the question that their technology will b, in part, completely mapped and trained co-ordinates (hey, they did it with StreetView). Each road, each corner, each nuance all recorded several times over for redundant accuracy - plus all the sensory, awareness that they have previously shown. There's also the point to be made that the car may know when and where it will have problems (calculating multiple steps ahead) and let you know that a known obstacle is coming up and you'll have to take over. Nothing wrong with that.
        switz 15y ago
        No one said the car should ship tomorrow, but the reasoning: "Because you don't ship when it still kills people" is ridiculous. Cars have killed people for 90 years and they still ship. And not every death is due to human error. The fact is, the Google car has yet to even be hit by another car, let alone hitting something itself. It hasn't even remotely injured anything, let alone killed a human being.
        jonknee 15y ago
        The Google car has been hit by another car and it's not ridiculous at all to not ship something that can very easily kill someone (and in this case, almost assuredly innocent bystanders) before you've had time to work out the bugs. I'm glad car companies don't release their drive by wire systems out for public betas too. http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/google-self-driving-car-crash-caused-human-121531 http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/goog... It's a silly debate anyways considering all the extra hardware you'd need.
  - jacquesm 15y ago
    http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/09/google-automated-cars/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/09/google-automated-cars/ Says that they do have the occasional human intervention. So even if it has never been in an accident up to that point there had only been 7 cars that had driven 1,000 miles without any human intervention. You'd have to have a lot more data (such as a much higher number of miles logged without human intervention and 'all weather' exposure) before you could make such a grand claim.
  - jonknee 15y ago
    In very carefully controlled conditions with carefully controlled equipment. Supervised by experts. That's different than a bunch of people modding their Civics and having them roam the streets.
  - k-mcgrady 15y ago
    It has been in accident. It wasn't in one it caused but it was rear ended.
- psb217 15y ago
  As to your first sentence, much of the most advanced technology in existence did not ship until it was sufficiently effective at causing or, at least, facilitating death.
mdwrigh2 15y ago
> Real artists ship. While true, don't you think that the world would be a poorer place without the research from Xerox Parc? People who were notoriously bad at shipping, but their ideas were used to create product elsewhere. My only point is that shipping isn't everything for research, unlike product development. So the question is really, are they looking to build a product, or research the future of computing? Perhaps both. Having said that, I do wish I could get my hands on one...
nkassis 15y ago
Well treating your users like guinea pigs can back fire. Look at Siri. There seems to be a lot of frustrated users, some even going as far as lawsuits. That model doesn't always work.
- joejohnson 15y ago
  Siri is great. Almost 90% of iPhone 4S users use Siri once a month. http://www.macnews.com/2012/03/26/87-iphone-4s-owners-use-siri-least-once-month http://www.macnews.com/2012/03/26/87-iphone-4s-owners-use-si... http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/26/90-percent-siri-users/ http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/26/90-percent-siri-user... Siri isn't perfect, but it's a great start. Apple will almost certainly improve Siri in the next iteration of iOS.
  - joejohnson 15y ago
    Why is this being downvoted?
    - sukuriant 15y ago
      Apple respecter, not fanboy here: I don't know either. It'd be nice for some explanation.
    - andreyf 15y ago
      I think you got downvoted because you come off a little fanboyish when you retort the class action lawsuits regarding false advertising simply stating "Siri is great". Just because 90% of people use it once a month doesn't make it great. That said, I personally think Siri is great, and use it all the time. :)

jonknee 15y ago

Because you don't ship when it still kills people. Google launches stuff in betas all the time (arguably too much and for too long), but I'm glad they're not out there letting anyone test self driving cars or augmented reality contacts. Apple's difference isn't that they iterate, it's that they don't talk about their new stuff until it ships.

switz 15y ago
The automated car has driven over 200,000 miles and has never once been in an accident. I don't know many humans that can live up to that.
- teej 15y ago
  200k miles is nothing. Over 8 billion vehicle miles are spent per DAY in the US. One person is killed for every 75 million miles driven. 200k miles isn't enough to test every terrain, under every weather condition, in every lighting, etc. There's too many variables in the equation. The Google car won't be truly safe until it has logged 1000x miles.
  - Symmetry 15y ago
    Its not that Google's automated cars haven't been in an fatal crash, its that they haven't been in a crash at all. The US _crash rate_ is a bit over 5 per million miles traveled, you you would expect about one crash in the 200k miles already covered if it was a human driver. The circumstances probably aren't identical, but what evidence we have suggests that these automated vehicles are at least comparably safe to a human driver.
    - doktrin 15y ago
      You can't be serious. The evidence may support it, but the evidence is incredibly limited. Can you imagine the potential liability Google faces if they try to bring this to market without having done due diligence? This is a car, not an iPad.
      - tomkin 15y ago
        It really depends on the implementation. You're assuming that all of the functionality has been revealed. For example, it's not completely out of the question that their technology will b, in part, completely mapped and trained co-ordinates (hey, they did it with StreetView). Each road, each corner, each nuance all recorded several times over for redundant accuracy - plus all the sensory, awareness that they have previously shown. There's also the point to be made that the car may know when and where it will have problems (calculating multiple steps ahead) and let you know that a known obstacle is coming up and you'll have to take over. Nothing wrong with that.
      - switz 15y ago
        No one said the car should ship tomorrow, but the reasoning: "Because you don't ship when it still kills people" is ridiculous. Cars have killed people for 90 years and they still ship. And not every death is due to human error. The fact is, the Google car has yet to even be hit by another car, let alone hitting something itself. It hasn't even remotely injured anything, let alone killed a human being.
        jonknee 15y ago
        The Google car has been hit by another car and it's not ridiculous at all to not ship something that can very easily kill someone (and in this case, almost assuredly innocent bystanders) before you've had time to work out the bugs. I'm glad car companies don't release their drive by wire systems out for public betas too. http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/google-self-driving-car-crash-caused-human-121531 http://www.technolog.msnbc.msn.com/technology/technolog/goog... It's a silly debate anyways considering all the extra hardware you'd need.
- jacquesm 15y ago
  http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/09/google-automated-cars/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/09/google-automated-cars/ Says that they do have the occasional human intervention. So even if it has never been in an accident up to that point there had only been 7 cars that had driven 1,000 miles without any human intervention. You'd have to have a lot more data (such as a much higher number of miles logged without human intervention and 'all weather' exposure) before you could make such a grand claim.
- jonknee 15y ago
  In very carefully controlled conditions with carefully controlled equipment. Supervised by experts. That's different than a bunch of people modding their Civics and having them roam the streets.
- k-mcgrady 15y ago
  It has been in accident. It wasn't in one it caused but it was rear ended.
psb217 15y ago
As to your first sentence, much of the most advanced technology in existence did not ship until it was sufficiently effective at causing or, at least, facilitating death.

mdwrigh2 15y ago

> Real artists ship. While true, don't you think that the world would be a poorer place without the research from Xerox Parc? People who were notoriously bad at shipping, but their ideas were used to create product elsewhere. My only point is that shipping isn't everything for research, unlike product development. So the question is really, are they looking to build a product, or research the future of computing? Perhaps both. Having said that, I do wish I could get my hands on one...

nkassis 15y ago

Well treating your users like guinea pigs can back fire. Look at Siri. There seems to be a lot of frustrated users, some even going as far as lawsuits. That model doesn't always work.

joejohnson 15y ago
Siri is great. Almost 90% of iPhone 4S users use Siri once a month. http://www.macnews.com/2012/03/26/87-iphone-4s-owners-use-siri-least-once-month http://www.macnews.com/2012/03/26/87-iphone-4s-owners-use-si... http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/26/90-percent-siri-users/ http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/03/26/90-percent-siri-user... Siri isn't perfect, but it's a great start. Apple will almost certainly improve Siri in the next iteration of iOS.
- joejohnson 15y ago
  Why is this being downvoted?
  - sukuriant 15y ago
    Apple respecter, not fanboy here: I don't know either. It'd be nice for some explanation.
  - andreyf 15y ago
    I think you got downvoted because you come off a little fanboyish when you retort the class action lawsuits regarding false advertising simply stating "Siri is great". Just because 90% of people use it once a month doesn't make it great. That said, I personally think Siri is great, and use it all the time. :)