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AFAIK in China there is no real 'dictatorship' related to economics, companies... The government listens carefully to top bosses describing in which way it can

AFAIK in China there is no real 'dictatorship' related to economics, companies... The government listens carefully to top bosses describing in which way it can help them. The major challenge is for them to align their various plans. The government also acts as a referee, crushing quarrels they cannot tackle themselves, in a brutal way (this may be an approach adopted in order to entice them into rather solving it by themselves, letting the referee act as a last resort). As a Chinese (entrepreneur or not) if you stay away from politics and, as a big fish boss, play by those "let's cooperate in order for the gov to help all of us" rules I doubt the gov will annoy you. > imprisoning your top entrepreneurs Jack Ma (Alibaba) was AFAIK playing at best solo, and at worse against most other entrepreneurs in his sector, and didn't abide to numerous warnings. Then he directly publicly and harshly criticized the financial sector, and announced that his company will become more and more of a direct competitor for banks. The gov then took care of his case. I like J. Ma, however it seems to me that his style, probably forged through his personal history, isn't compatible with the way things are done in China. Was another top entrepreneur imprisoned? This approach is way more efficient than my own government (the European Union and France's government) way: acting as the boss of bosses by devising its own strategy with at best vague (and often neglected) inputs from experts (most chosen among friends or lobbyists) then burning huge amounts of money into void projects (often nurturing cronies), taxing everything in sight, promulgating laws framing any new thing...

RandomLensman 3y ago
The CCP has some pretty direct influence on and role in large corporations. They idea of them as just some referee or planner is in error.
grey-area 3y ago
See the recent very public humiliation of formerly very prominent ex-president Hu Jintao, the flip-flopping on Covid, or the fixation with Taiwan for how much power one man wields. This is a dictatorship. As to unofficial disappearances, here's a short list of the most prominent, imprisoned and threatened for becoming popular and/or critical of the regime: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/china-disappeared-high-profile-figures-who-have-gone-missing-during-xi-jinpings-rule https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/china-disappea... Many foreign companies have been threatened too - leading to Google for example leaving the country, Apple's supplier is currently under threat: https://www.ft.com/content/e6abcb86-1c80-4914-ae54-c7df94d7a9e0 https://www.ft.com/content/e6abcb86-1c80-4914-ae54-c7df94d7a... Finally, they also insert CCP members at board level in companies to control their direction directly: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business... As to saying China is more efficient than France, France is a terrible example for efficiency, so that's a very low bar, but at least France isn't a dictatorship and has rule of law, I know where I'd feel safe investing.
- natmaka 3y ago
  > prominent ex-president Hu Jintao > Covid > Taiwan My point was only about business (relationship between companies and the gov). > unofficial disappearances Apart from Jack Ma (I proposed an explanation), this list isn't about business: artist, actor, Interpol chief, and "A Hong Kong-based publisher who specialised in sometimes gossipy books about China’s political elite". > foreign companies have been threatened Indeed, my point was only about Chinese entrepreneurs and bosses, sorry for having neglected to state it. > they also insert CCP members at board level in companies to control their direction "The party doesn’t habitually micromanage their day-to-day operations. The firms are largely still in charge of their basic business decisions" Also: "But pressure from party committees to have a seat at the table when executives are making big calls on investment" may be in line with my hypothesis: the gov enforces respect of a strategy defined by all (AFAIK the Japanese MITI also acted this way). My point isn't about the Party's ways to enforce the strategy of a sector but about the method used to define this strategy: it seems to me that it mainly is defined by companies' bosses. There also is a real will to strictly control the political side of things, which may explain some actions, which aren't the usual way.
  - grey-area 3y ago
    If you want another business example how about the founder of Foxconn, made some pro Taiwan statements and running for president there, then suddenly gets investigated and inevitably will be found guilty. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67186745 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67186745 'For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law' China does not have rule of law, the law is used to intimidate rivals for power and applied very selectively. This is not just for people at the top, businesses at all levels feel this danger. It’s also not just for business people but anyone prominent. These are all hallmarks of a dictatorship.
    - natmaka 3y ago
      My point was not about the nature of the political regime but about it's ways towards businesses: does it emits strong directives on all accounts/levels? My point is that, albeit there are perimeters strictly under its exclusive control (Taiwan being one, battles opposing Chinese individuals/companies being another), entrepreneurs and bosses are quite free to decide and to act. Everything related to Taiwan is heavily politically loaded in China, this is one of the few taboos, and everyone knows it there.

RandomLensman 3y ago

The CCP has some pretty direct influence on and role in large corporations. They idea of them as just some referee or planner is in error.

grey-area 3y ago

See the recent very public humiliation of formerly very prominent ex-president Hu Jintao, the flip-flopping on Covid, or the fixation with Taiwan for how much power one man wields. This is a dictatorship. As to unofficial disappearances, here's a short list of the most prominent, imprisoned and threatened for becoming popular and/or critical of the regime: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/china-disappeared-high-profile-figures-who-have-gone-missing-during-xi-jinpings-rule https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/china-disappea... Many foreign companies have been threatened too - leading to Google for example leaving the country, Apple's supplier is currently under threat: https://www.ft.com/content/e6abcb86-1c80-4914-ae54-c7df94d7a9e0 https://www.ft.com/content/e6abcb86-1c80-4914-ae54-c7df94d7a... Finally, they also insert CCP members at board level in companies to control their direction directly: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business-xi-jinping-communist-party-state-private-enterprise-huawei https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business... As to saying China is more efficient than France, France is a terrible example for efficiency, so that's a very low bar, but at least France isn't a dictatorship and has rule of law, I know where I'd feel safe investing.

natmaka 3y ago
> prominent ex-president Hu Jintao > Covid > Taiwan My point was only about business (relationship between companies and the gov). > unofficial disappearances Apart from Jack Ma (I proposed an explanation), this list isn't about business: artist, actor, Interpol chief, and "A Hong Kong-based publisher who specialised in sometimes gossipy books about China’s political elite". > foreign companies have been threatened Indeed, my point was only about Chinese entrepreneurs and bosses, sorry for having neglected to state it. > they also insert CCP members at board level in companies to control their direction "The party doesn’t habitually micromanage their day-to-day operations. The firms are largely still in charge of their basic business decisions" Also: "But pressure from party committees to have a seat at the table when executives are making big calls on investment" may be in line with my hypothesis: the gov enforces respect of a strategy defined by all (AFAIK the Japanese MITI also acted this way). My point isn't about the Party's ways to enforce the strategy of a sector but about the method used to define this strategy: it seems to me that it mainly is defined by companies' bosses. There also is a real will to strictly control the political side of things, which may explain some actions, which aren't the usual way.
- grey-area 3y ago
  If you want another business example how about the founder of Foxconn, made some pro Taiwan statements and running for president there, then suddenly gets investigated and inevitably will be found guilty. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67186745 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67186745 'For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law' China does not have rule of law, the law is used to intimidate rivals for power and applied very selectively. This is not just for people at the top, businesses at all levels feel this danger. It’s also not just for business people but anyone prominent. These are all hallmarks of a dictatorship.
  - natmaka 3y ago
    My point was not about the nature of the political regime but about it's ways towards businesses: does it emits strong directives on all accounts/levels? My point is that, albeit there are perimeters strictly under its exclusive control (Taiwan being one, battles opposing Chinese individuals/companies being another), entrepreneurs and bosses are quite free to decide and to act. Everything related to Taiwan is heavily politically loaded in China, this is one of the few taboos, and everyone knows it there.