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I have wasted an obscene amount of food trying to preserve it. This is the kind of skill that used to be learned at home when you were a kid but as I was growin

by Paul_S 3y ago

I have wasted an obscene amount of food trying to preserve it. This is the kind of skill that used to be learned at home when you were a kid but as I was growing up this was only passed onto daughters - us boys were taught different skills and my wife grew up in the city. Trying to learn this from books is terrible. Most of the time I call up my mom to teach me over a video call but some things are easier taught in person, especially ones that require manual manipulation of things. I worry that enormous amount of nuance is lost when transmitting skills through written down form instead of in person.

giantg2 3y ago
I've mostly had the opposite experience. Canning is easy - it's a straight forward recipe and instructions. You just have e to ensure the recipe is from a good source. Occasionally you'll have a few lids that don't seal. Or you'll try a recipe that results in soggy pickles. Curing is pretty easy too. Using equilibrium cures and leaving it refrigerated removes a lot of concerns. Curing for room temperature storage is a little trickier but is mostly about having a good environment to store it in. Dehydration is easy - basically just slice things and pop them in the dehydrator at the recommended time and temperature. Fermentation is the one that I've wasted the most food with, which still isn't that much. I've made a few bad batches of beer and wine. I've also had a batch or two of sauerkraut turn out bad. These are usually due to bad quality ingredients, like cabbage that wasn't that fresh, or to waiting too long to bottle beer. The big thing is to try stuff in small batches and learn. Ensure that you follow the directions from a reputable authority so you don't get sick. When in doubt, throw it out.
- onetimeuse92304 3y ago
  For fermentation, you don't want very small batches. Fermentation can be sensitive to small variations (concentrations of salt, sugars, etc.) Also, fermentation is spoiled by access to air. Both are helped by working with a larger container. If you have trouble with small batches, maybe try a larger batch for once and see how it goes. Stuff that I ferment regularly: sourdough bread (for example, pizza dough -- for up to two weeks in the fridge), cabbage (sauerkraut), cucumbers, beets (I love good borscht, what can I say), jalapeno peppers (I love to add them to scrambled eggs and always have a batch in the fridge), and habaneros (I make mean habanero sauce and it is best when I use my own fermented habaneros for this).
  - giantg2 3y ago
    I wouldn't do very small batches like 1 jar. But something like doing 1 gallon of wine vs 5 gallons, or doing a 1-2 gallon crock of kraut vs a 5-10 gallon crock.
    - onetimeuse92304 3y ago
      If you see a lot of failure, it is not normal. Things do fail me, but very rarely, and usually I can track it to some concrete reasons. Some reasons for fermentation failures: - too small concentration of salt. You need to count water both in the liquid and in the thing you are fermenting. And yes, you need to weigh your salt and use calculator to figure out how much salt you need exactly. And a scale that allows you to weigh it precisely enough. - not enough sugars. Fermentation needs to run to a point where the liquid is acidic enough to stop other things from invading your food. This usually means there needs to be enough sugars so that fermentation can run its course and stop after the solution is acidic enough and it ideally should coincide with all sugars being depleted. This is the perfect stopping point, if you have too little sugars it will stop before it is acidic enough and if it has too much sugars some bacteries might still be able to live on it. Out of two, it is better to have too much sugar than too little. - wrong temperature. You want correct temperature so that your choice of yeast can invade the food faster than anything else. If it is too warm or too cold, some other living thing may be more efficient than yeast and your food will spoil. - Oxygen. You want Oxygen out of your fermentation liquid. You want to use airlock . Use super salty water in the airlock to prevent contamination by liquid splashing back. I am also using using carbonated water to make sure right from the start there is little or no oxygen dissolved in the liquid, and as it bubbles out it also removes Oxygen above the liquid. - once fermentation runs out, keep in a cool place. I keep it in the fridge. My jalapenos last for a year in a jar I open from time to time. I have not tried for longer because I just replace it with a newly fermented jar of jalapenos every time there is season. - cleanliness. You want to keep stuff clean, as much as possible. Make sure you get your fermentation glass to 100C for some time (don't just flush with hot water, actually submerge in a pot of boiling water). Try not to use plastic that is scratched and can harbor bacteria (although I am using PET bottles frequently with good effect, but I am not reusing them afterwards). Wash your food well and maybe even wash with boiling water if it makes sense. - slow start. If your food is in large chunks and not releasing sugars to the liquid, it might take for too long for the fermentation to start which gives time for it to spoil. Mash/crush some of the food so that some of the sugars can be released and start fermentation. - too much liquid. It really is not enough sugars point, but for some foods that do not have much sugars in them in the first place, you may want to consider really pack them tightly.
MandieD 3y ago
I taught myself how to make jam - my mother never did, and as far as I know, neither of my grandmothers did after childhood.
macNchz 3y ago
I taught myself canning ten years ago and found it pretty straightforward. I used this website and the Ball book, and have done many batches of jams, pickles, and veggies. I think I only fully wasted the first batch of 8 half-pint jams I made, which were basically fruit leather, otherwise things have turned out pretty well. I give jam as holiday gifts, and in years where I haven’t made any I get people asking for it, so I take that as a sign I’m doing something right!
dfxm12 3y ago
Not everyone who cans is necessarily scientists or chefs or writers, etc. Nuance may be lost when folk chefs try to write down their process, especially if they don't fully understand the process or which exact steps are important. This isn't because nuance is lost when you write this stuff down, it's because they aren't trained writers or don't understand the process enough themselves to explain in well enough in words. I think learning this stuff from books is easy. It's not about the subject, it's about both your learning style and starting from good material. Preserving by Ginette Mathiot is good material.
zwieback 3y ago
Just out of curiosity, how did you end up wasting so much food? Did it go bad or just not taste good.
- Paul_S 3y ago
  Both. Especially fermenting often resulted in barely edible pickles. Nowadays the only fermentation I do is alcohol. I leave the rest to my wife who's picked it up more successfully than me. I help with pasturising although there's not much to do now we bought a pasturising cooker.
  - zwieback 3y ago
    Yeah, I never attempted things like lactic acid fermentation and the homemade sauerkraut, kimchi or pickles has been a mixed bag, to be honest.
    - InSteady 3y ago
      FYI homemade sauerkraut, kimchi, and pickles are all examples of lactic acid fermentation.
      - zwieback 3y ago
        Right - my wording was confusing. I meant that I've tried other people's homemade lactic acid fermented food and didn't enjoy it very much so I haven't been inspired to try it myself.
mikecoles 3y ago
If a child inquired, it is certain the lesson would taught. Don't blame past generations for the lack of interest from the current.

by Paul_S 3y ago

giantg2 3y ago

I've mostly had the opposite experience. Canning is easy - it's a straight forward recipe and instructions. You just have e to ensure the recipe is from a good source. Occasionally you'll have a few lids that don't seal. Or you'll try a recipe that results in soggy pickles. Curing is pretty easy too. Using equilibrium cures and leaving it refrigerated removes a lot of concerns. Curing for room temperature storage is a little trickier but is mostly about having a good environment to store it in. Dehydration is easy - basically just slice things and pop them in the dehydrator at the recommended time and temperature. Fermentation is the one that I've wasted the most food with, which still isn't that much. I've made a few bad batches of beer and wine. I've also had a batch or two of sauerkraut turn out bad. These are usually due to bad quality ingredients, like cabbage that wasn't that fresh, or to waiting too long to bottle beer. The big thing is to try stuff in small batches and learn. Ensure that you follow the directions from a reputable authority so you don't get sick. When in doubt, throw it out.

onetimeuse92304 3y ago
For fermentation, you don't want very small batches. Fermentation can be sensitive to small variations (concentrations of salt, sugars, etc.) Also, fermentation is spoiled by access to air. Both are helped by working with a larger container. If you have trouble with small batches, maybe try a larger batch for once and see how it goes. Stuff that I ferment regularly: sourdough bread (for example, pizza dough -- for up to two weeks in the fridge), cabbage (sauerkraut), cucumbers, beets (I love good borscht, what can I say), jalapeno peppers (I love to add them to scrambled eggs and always have a batch in the fridge), and habaneros (I make mean habanero sauce and it is best when I use my own fermented habaneros for this).
- giantg2 3y ago
  I wouldn't do very small batches like 1 jar. But something like doing 1 gallon of wine vs 5 gallons, or doing a 1-2 gallon crock of kraut vs a 5-10 gallon crock.
  - onetimeuse92304 3y ago
    If you see a lot of failure, it is not normal. Things do fail me, but very rarely, and usually I can track it to some concrete reasons. Some reasons for fermentation failures: - too small concentration of salt. You need to count water both in the liquid and in the thing you are fermenting. And yes, you need to weigh your salt and use calculator to figure out how much salt you need exactly. And a scale that allows you to weigh it precisely enough. - not enough sugars. Fermentation needs to run to a point where the liquid is acidic enough to stop other things from invading your food. This usually means there needs to be enough sugars so that fermentation can run its course and stop after the solution is acidic enough and it ideally should coincide with all sugars being depleted. This is the perfect stopping point, if you have too little sugars it will stop before it is acidic enough and if it has too much sugars some bacteries might still be able to live on it. Out of two, it is better to have too much sugar than too little. - wrong temperature. You want correct temperature so that your choice of yeast can invade the food faster than anything else. If it is too warm or too cold, some other living thing may be more efficient than yeast and your food will spoil. - Oxygen. You want Oxygen out of your fermentation liquid. You want to use airlock . Use super salty water in the airlock to prevent contamination by liquid splashing back. I am also using using carbonated water to make sure right from the start there is little or no oxygen dissolved in the liquid, and as it bubbles out it also removes Oxygen above the liquid. - once fermentation runs out, keep in a cool place. I keep it in the fridge. My jalapenos last for a year in a jar I open from time to time. I have not tried for longer because I just replace it with a newly fermented jar of jalapenos every time there is season. - cleanliness. You want to keep stuff clean, as much as possible. Make sure you get your fermentation glass to 100C for some time (don't just flush with hot water, actually submerge in a pot of boiling water). Try not to use plastic that is scratched and can harbor bacteria (although I am using PET bottles frequently with good effect, but I am not reusing them afterwards). Wash your food well and maybe even wash with boiling water if it makes sense. - slow start. If your food is in large chunks and not releasing sugars to the liquid, it might take for too long for the fermentation to start which gives time for it to spoil. Mash/crush some of the food so that some of the sugars can be released and start fermentation. - too much liquid. It really is not enough sugars point, but for some foods that do not have much sugars in them in the first place, you may want to consider really pack them tightly.

MandieD 3y ago

I taught myself how to make jam - my mother never did, and as far as I know, neither of my grandmothers did after childhood.

macNchz 3y ago

I taught myself canning ten years ago and found it pretty straightforward. I used this website and the Ball book, and have done many batches of jams, pickles, and veggies. I think I only fully wasted the first batch of 8 half-pint jams I made, which were basically fruit leather, otherwise things have turned out pretty well. I give jam as holiday gifts, and in years where I haven’t made any I get people asking for it, so I take that as a sign I’m doing something right!

dfxm12 3y ago

Not everyone who cans is necessarily scientists or chefs or writers, etc. Nuance may be lost when folk chefs try to write down their process, especially if they don't fully understand the process or which exact steps are important. This isn't because nuance is lost when you write this stuff down, it's because they aren't trained writers or don't understand the process enough themselves to explain in well enough in words. I think learning this stuff from books is easy. It's not about the subject, it's about both your learning style and starting from good material. Preserving by Ginette Mathiot is good material.

zwieback 3y ago

Just out of curiosity, how did you end up wasting so much food? Did it go bad or just not taste good.

Paul_S 3y ago
Both. Especially fermenting often resulted in barely edible pickles. Nowadays the only fermentation I do is alcohol. I leave the rest to my wife who's picked it up more successfully than me. I help with pasturising although there's not much to do now we bought a pasturising cooker.
- zwieback 3y ago
  Yeah, I never attempted things like lactic acid fermentation and the homemade sauerkraut, kimchi or pickles has been a mixed bag, to be honest.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    FYI homemade sauerkraut, kimchi, and pickles are all examples of lactic acid fermentation.
    - zwieback 3y ago
      Right - my wording was confusing. I meant that I've tried other people's homemade lactic acid fermented food and didn't enjoy it very much so I haven't been inspired to try it myself.

mikecoles 3y ago

If a child inquired, it is certain the lesson would taught. Don't blame past generations for the lack of interest from the current.