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I'm no Apple fan, but Apple killed it because Adobe was letting Flash be an awful, unreliable piece of software for years, and seemed fine with letting that be

I'm no Apple fan, but Apple killed it because Adobe was letting Flash be an awful, unreliable piece of software for years, and seemed fine with letting that be the status quo for a decade more. If Adobe did a better job of improving the stability and resource management of the Flash clients, they wouldn't have had to "capitulate".

phendrenad2 3y ago
Citation needed. Flash wasn't particularly more unreliable or awful than browsers were. I think that flash got a bad rap because browser vendors didn't like it's monopoly on content and they wanted a slice.
- justinclift 3y ago
  > Flash wasn't particularly more unreliable or awful than browsers were. Citation needed. Saying that because Flash was widely touted as a significant contributor to browser crashes. Though, looking for a citation for that myself just now... all of the search results I'm getting back are just an endless sea of "Flash crashed my browser" type of things instead. :/
  - phendrenad2 3y ago
    Yeah, exactly. Just because everyone says it doesn't make it so, and the general public are often wildly wrong about basic computer facts.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      Well, neither of us seem to have supporting evidence so far... ;) --- Using some different search parameters is turning up some results: * http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-analysis.mozilla.com/bsmedberg/flash-summary.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-anal... * https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash * https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data There is some talking around the problem on the old Mozilla Blog: * https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash-protection-now-available/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash... Things being about a decade old is adding further difficulty. :/
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - phendrenad2 3y ago
        > http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-analysis.mozilla.com/bsmedberg/flash-summary.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-anal... This is a page where Firefox developers are discussing how to inject their own crash-reporting code into the sandboxed flash container. I never said that 3rd party plugins didn't occasionally have crashes, so I don't see the point of this link. Can you elaborate? > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash This lists crashes seen in the Flash module. But again, I never said that 3rd party plugins didn't occasionally have crashes. > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data This is a documentation page about types of all-cause failures related to Flash, (could be Firefox code issues) > https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash-protection-now-available/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash... Javascript also has "crash protection" in the form of a sandbox. That's why pages can "crash" without taking down the entire browser. This would also work exactly the same for Flash.
        justinclift 3y ago
        Yeah, that's all fair. Did you manage to find citations supporting your assertion? :)
  - liquidpele 3y ago
    Chrome was the first browser to stop letting plugins crash the whole thing, so yea it was a thing before for sure, but it was still way better than other things like ActiveX or Java applets…

phendrenad2 3y ago

Citation needed. Flash wasn't particularly more unreliable or awful than browsers were. I think that flash got a bad rap because browser vendors didn't like it's monopoly on content and they wanted a slice.

justinclift 3y ago
> Flash wasn't particularly more unreliable or awful than browsers were. Citation needed. Saying that because Flash was widely touted as a significant contributor to browser crashes. Though, looking for a citation for that myself just now... all of the search results I'm getting back are just an endless sea of "Flash crashed my browser" type of things instead. :/
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  Yeah, exactly. Just because everyone says it doesn't make it so, and the general public are often wildly wrong about basic computer facts.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    Well, neither of us seem to have supporting evidence so far... ;) --- Using some different search parameters is turning up some results: * http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-analysis.mozilla.com/bsmedberg/flash-summary.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-anal... * https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash * https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data There is some talking around the problem on the old Mozilla Blog: * https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash-protection-now-available/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash... Things being about a decade old is adding further difficulty. :/
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - phendrenad2 3y ago
      > http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-analysis.mozilla.com/bsmedberg/flash-summary.html http://web.archive.org/web/20140903235611/https://crash-anal... This is a page where Firefox developers are discussing how to inject their own crash-reporting code into the sandboxed flash container. I never said that 3rd party plugins didn't occasionally have crashes, so I don't see the point of this link. Can you elaborate? > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash This lists crashes seen in the Flash module. But again, I never said that 3rd party plugins didn't occasionally have crashes. > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data https://wiki.mozilla.org/CrashKill/Flash_Breakdown_Data This is a documentation page about types of all-cause failures related to Flash, (could be Firefox code issues) > https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash-protection-now-available/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/firefox-3-6-4-with-crash... Javascript also has "crash protection" in the form of a sandbox. That's why pages can "crash" without taking down the entire browser. This would also work exactly the same for Flash.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        Yeah, that's all fair. Did you manage to find citations supporting your assertion? :)
- liquidpele 3y ago
  Chrome was the first browser to stop letting plugins crash the whole thing, so yea it was a thing before for sure, but it was still way better than other things like ActiveX or Java applets…