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> Base64 encoding takes binary data and converts it into text, specifically ASCII text. Perpetuates the idea that there's "binary" and "text", which is incorre

> Base64 encoding takes binary data and converts it into text, specifically ASCII text. Perpetuates the idea that there's "binary" and "text", which is incorrect, but also implies you can't encode ordinary ASCII text into base64.

farhanhubble 3y ago
The article actually shows an example of text to base64 encoding. But base64 is generally used for encoding data in places where only ascii is admissible like URLs and inlined binary blobs
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  It's part of a lot of web standards and also commonly used for crypto stuff. E.g. the plain text files in your .ssh directory are typically in base64 encoding; if you use basic authentication that's $user:$passwd base64 encoded in a header; you can indeed use it to have images and other inline content in the url in web pages; email attachments are usually base64 encoded. And so on. One of those things any decent standard library for just about any language would need.
Aachen 3y ago
There is binary and text, though. Many bit sequences aren't valid in a given text encoding (such as UTF-whatever) and so trying to use them as text is an error. I understand what you mean, of course text can be represented and treated as binary, and the inverse often as well although it isn't necessarily true. Even in Windows-1252, where the upper 127 characters are in use, there are control characters such as null, delete, and EOT which I'd be impressed if a random chat program preserves them across the wire. I also don't read an implication that ASCII couldn't be converted to b64
numlock86 3y ago
> Perpetuates the idea that there's "binary" and "text" [...] Well, there is binary, and there is text. Sure, all text - like "strawman" ;) - is binary somehow, but not all binary data is text, nor can be even interpreted as such, even if you tried really hard ... like all those poor hex editors.
- imetatroll 3y ago
  All text is binary. Everything is binary. "Somehow" is an odd choice of words here.
  - roydivision 3y ago
    Came to say this.
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    Text is text. Text is encodable as binary. If text was binary, that encoding would be unique, but it isn't. Latin-1 encodes "Ü" differently than UTF-8 does, and even the humble "A" could be a 0x41 in ASCII and UTF-8 or a 0xC1 in EBCDIC
    - imetatroll 3y ago
      This is just ... not how I look at it at all. Everything is represented in powers of two... binary.
      - taway1237 3y ago
        Everything is representable as binary, but not everything is binary. The abstract concept of 'A' has no inherent binary representation, and 0x41 is just one of the options. Representing Pi or e calls for even more abstract encoding, even though they are a very specific concept. Text is not binary, but text has to be encoded to binary (one way or another) in order to do any kind of computer assisted processing of it. But we tend to think of text in abstract terms, instead of "utf-8 encoded bytes", hence this abstraction is useful.
        imetatroll 3y ago
        I fully understand that there are different binary representations for the same character depending on the encoding. It is still all binary.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
> but also implies you can't encode ordinary ASCII text into base64. I don't think it implies that at all. Text isn't binary. Text can be encoded in binary, and there are different ways to do it. ASCII, UTF-8/16/32, latin-1, Shift-JIS, Windows-1252, etc. Many can't encode all text characters, especially languages that don't use the Latin alphabet. The fact that you have to ensure you're using the correct encoding when processing text from a binary stream is proof enough that text isn't binary. Python before 3.x allowed you to treat binary and text as equal, and it often caused problems.
xp84 3y ago
Most developers (etc) use "binary data" or "a binary format" as a shorthand for "not even remotely ASCII or Unicode" - as opposed to the opposite, like a .txt file or HTML or Markdown, where it's readable and printable to the screen. Of course if it's in a file or in RAM or whatever, it's always ultimately stored as 0s and 1s but that's not the sense we mean here.

farhanhubble 3y ago

The article actually shows an example of text to base64 encoding. But base64 is generally used for encoding data in places where only ascii is admissible like URLs and inlined binary blobs

jillesvangurp 3y ago
It's part of a lot of web standards and also commonly used for crypto stuff. E.g. the plain text files in your .ssh directory are typically in base64 encoding; if you use basic authentication that's $user:$passwd base64 encoded in a header; you can indeed use it to have images and other inline content in the url in web pages; email attachments are usually base64 encoded. And so on. One of those things any decent standard library for just about any language would need.

Aachen 3y ago

There is binary and text, though. Many bit sequences aren't valid in a given text encoding (such as UTF-whatever) and so trying to use them as text is an error. I understand what you mean, of course text can be represented and treated as binary, and the inverse often as well although it isn't necessarily true. Even in Windows-1252, where the upper 127 characters are in use, there are control characters such as null, delete, and EOT which I'd be impressed if a random chat program preserves them across the wire. I also don't read an implication that ASCII couldn't be converted to b64

numlock86 3y ago

> Perpetuates the idea that there's "binary" and "text" [...] Well, there is binary, and there is text. Sure, all text - like "strawman" ;) - is binary somehow, but not all binary data is text, nor can be even interpreted as such, even if you tried really hard ... like all those poor hex editors.

imetatroll 3y ago
All text is binary. Everything is binary. "Somehow" is an odd choice of words here.
- roydivision 3y ago
  Came to say this.
- wongarsu 3y ago
  Text is text. Text is encodable as binary. If text was binary, that encoding would be unique, but it isn't. Latin-1 encodes "Ü" differently than UTF-8 does, and even the humble "A" could be a 0x41 in ASCII and UTF-8 or a 0xC1 in EBCDIC
  - imetatroll 3y ago
    This is just ... not how I look at it at all. Everything is represented in powers of two... binary.
    - taway1237 3y ago
      Everything is representable as binary, but not everything is binary. The abstract concept of 'A' has no inherent binary representation, and 0x41 is just one of the options. Representing Pi or e calls for even more abstract encoding, even though they are a very specific concept. Text is not binary, but text has to be encoded to binary (one way or another) in order to do any kind of computer assisted processing of it. But we tend to think of text in abstract terms, instead of "utf-8 encoded bytes", hence this abstraction is useful.
      - imetatroll 3y ago
        I fully understand that there are different binary representations for the same character depending on the encoding. It is still all binary.

Sohcahtoa82 3y ago

> but also implies you can't encode ordinary ASCII text into base64. I don't think it implies that at all. Text isn't binary. Text can be encoded in binary, and there are different ways to do it. ASCII, UTF-8/16/32, latin-1, Shift-JIS, Windows-1252, etc. Many can't encode all text characters, especially languages that don't use the Latin alphabet. The fact that you have to ensure you're using the correct encoding when processing text from a binary stream is proof enough that text isn't binary. Python before 3.x allowed you to treat binary and text as equal, and it often caused problems.

xp84 3y ago

Most developers (etc) use "binary data" or "a binary format" as a shorthand for "not even remotely ASCII or Unicode" - as opposed to the opposite, like a .txt file or HTML or Markdown, where it's readable and printable to the screen. Of course if it's in a file or in RAM or whatever, it's always ultimately stored as 0s and 1s but that's not the sense we mean here.