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It's mentioned a few times in the article, but Brightline has been a outlier in terms of successfully building high speed passenger rail in the US. I read an a

It's mentioned a few times in the article, but Brightline has been a outlier in terms of successfully building high speed passenger rail in the US. I read an article a while back about how Brightline chooses it's routes. I can't find the article at the moment, but I remember the CEO basically saying they made it work by being ruthless with strict parameters. Specifically, Brightline won't build rail unless the following are all true: 1. The trip must be between 200 and 300 miles. Their research indicates this is the sweet spot between being more than a convenient car ride, but less then a convenient plane ride. I'll note that LA -> LV is ~180 miles, whereas LA -> SF is ~340 miles. 2. Leverage as much existing right-of-way as possible (The LA -> LV route follows the highway) 3. The market for consistent commuter travel between the destinations must pencil (Miami to Orlando / Disneyland, Los Angeles to Las Vegas) I honestly think the US is so large and geographically diverse, you just need to be really picky when choosing high speed rail projects. Also fun fact: I used to think that the biggest cost difference from flying vs rail travel was maintaining the rails. The biggest cost difference is actually the staff. Since flights are so much shorter and require less staff per seat, the per-hourly cost adds up.

hifromLA 3y ago
It’s a miracle of marketing that so many people think what brightline has built is high speed rail.
- kqr2 3y ago
  At least for its Las Vegas segment, it may qualify. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail : While there is no single standard that applies worldwide, lines built to handle speeds above 250 km/h (155 mph) or upgraded lines in excess of 200 km/h (124 mph) are widely considered to be high-speed. From https://www.hsrail.org/brightline-west/ https://www.hsrail.org/brightline-west/ : Brightline West is ready to connect Las Vegas and the Los Angeles area at speeds of up to 180 mph.
- lmm 3y ago
  It operates at 200kph/125mph for part of the route, which is the traditional definition (e.g. it's what you see on those maps of European high speed rail). It's barely over the line, but it qualifies.
melling 3y ago
“The trip must be between 200 and 300 miles. Their research indicates this is the sweet spot between being more than a convenient car ride, but less then a convenient plane ride. I'll note that LA -> LV is ~180 miles, whereas LA -> SF is ~340 miles.” That’s a function of the train speed. If the train traveled at 300 mph, then LA<->SF becomes faster than Brightline’s 180 mile LA to Vegas route, which looks like it will average 100 mph.
- fmobus 3y ago
  300mph is not trivial for trains, that's more in maglev range. In fact, the fastest maglev in operation (Shanghai's) tops at 286mph.
  - melling 3y ago
    Yep, that would explain the half a dozen comments about maglevs made by me. I’ve definitely been trying to steer the conversation towards maglevs.
- lchengify 3y ago
  > That’s a function of the train speed. If the train traveled at 300 mph, then LA<->SF becomes faster than Brightline’s 180 mile LA to Vegas route, which looks like it will average 100 mph. Even with the speed, you would have to do LA <-> SF as the crow flies. California HSR Phase 1 is 520 mi. On the other hand, LA <-> LV is effectively flat, at least from where the Brightline leaves in Palmdale. The difference between the two projects is pretty stark.
gaadd33 3y ago
Brightline built Miami to West Palm Beach on rails it already owned, I think much of the new extension from West Palm Beach to Orlando has been on existing rails too. Do trains require more staff per seat? Amtrak trains seem to have 2 staff in the car and I assume 2 engineers, and roughly (5 car consist of 72 seats) 360 passengers, vs 4-6 people for 180 people on an A320.
- lchengify 3y ago
  IIRC the bigger component was the time issue. When the flight is an hour and the train ride is 3 hours it makes a big difference. But I would imagine it's seat density (more seats in a plane fuselage vs a train car) and sold seats vs empty seats (airlines have a pretty efficient system for filling seats based on dynamic pricing, due to the fact that the flight departures are timed and gated). I'll try to find the article, it had numbers.

hifromLA 3y ago

It’s a miracle of marketing that so many people think what brightline has built is high speed rail.

kqr2 3y ago
At least for its Las Vegas segment, it may qualify. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail : While there is no single standard that applies worldwide, lines built to handle speeds above 250 km/h (155 mph) or upgraded lines in excess of 200 km/h (124 mph) are widely considered to be high-speed. From https://www.hsrail.org/brightline-west/ https://www.hsrail.org/brightline-west/ : Brightline West is ready to connect Las Vegas and the Los Angeles area at speeds of up to 180 mph.
lmm 3y ago
It operates at 200kph/125mph for part of the route, which is the traditional definition (e.g. it's what you see on those maps of European high speed rail). It's barely over the line, but it qualifies.

melling 3y ago

“The trip must be between 200 and 300 miles. Their research indicates this is the sweet spot between being more than a convenient car ride, but less then a convenient plane ride. I'll note that LA -> LV is ~180 miles, whereas LA -> SF is ~340 miles.” That’s a function of the train speed. If the train traveled at 300 mph, then LA<->SF becomes faster than Brightline’s 180 mile LA to Vegas route, which looks like it will average 100 mph.

fmobus 3y ago
300mph is not trivial for trains, that's more in maglev range. In fact, the fastest maglev in operation (Shanghai's) tops at 286mph.
- melling 3y ago
  Yep, that would explain the half a dozen comments about maglevs made by me. I’ve definitely been trying to steer the conversation towards maglevs.
lchengify 3y ago
> That’s a function of the train speed. If the train traveled at 300 mph, then LA<->SF becomes faster than Brightline’s 180 mile LA to Vegas route, which looks like it will average 100 mph. Even with the speed, you would have to do LA <-> SF as the crow flies. California HSR Phase 1 is 520 mi. On the other hand, LA <-> LV is effectively flat, at least from where the Brightline leaves in Palmdale. The difference between the two projects is pretty stark.

gaadd33 3y ago

Brightline built Miami to West Palm Beach on rails it already owned, I think much of the new extension from West Palm Beach to Orlando has been on existing rails too. Do trains require more staff per seat? Amtrak trains seem to have 2 staff in the car and I assume 2 engineers, and roughly (5 car consist of 72 seats) 360 passengers, vs 4-6 people for 180 people on an A320.

lchengify 3y ago
IIRC the bigger component was the time issue. When the flight is an hour and the train ride is 3 hours it makes a big difference. But I would imagine it's seat density (more seats in a plane fuselage vs a train car) and sold seats vs empty seats (airlines have a pretty efficient system for filling seats based on dynamic pricing, due to the fact that the flight departures are timed and gated). I'll try to find the article, it had numbers.