4 ms·

You seem to misunderstand how the adjective "toxic" is functioning in that phrase. Toxic masculinity describes a particular type of masculinity in the same way

You seem to misunderstand how the adjective "toxic" is functioning in that phrase. Toxic masculinity describes a particular type of masculinity in the same way that "electric car" describes a type, or subset, of cars. Not all cars are electric just like not all masculinity is toxic. Hope that helps!

klipt 3y ago
Sounds like a dog whistle to me. If someone talked constantly about, say, "toxic women", would you really believe they were only talking about a subset?
- irrational 3y ago
  Well, people do talk about Karens, shrews, bitches, etc. which all seem to be different kinds of toxic women. Maybe there are just more named subsets for toxic women than for men?
  - anon291 3y ago
    There are academic articles on karens, shrews and bitches? You're claiming that the worst used in 4chan, reddit, and popular magazines carry the same societal weight as academic articles in policy and sociology journals. They don't.
  - klipt 3y ago
    ...isn't using the word "bitches" widely considered a dog whistle for hating all women? Seems like you're agreeing with me.
Jensson 3y ago
They really should change phrases like this that causes a lot of confusion and misunderstandings before changing stuff like "whitelist".
dryanau 3y ago
I doubt there's any confusion. The purported meaning of the phrase is clear. But its usage in practice is often (but not always) quite punishing toward masculinity in general.
corbezzoli 3y ago
You're technically right, but then please note how the phrase "not all men…" is handled by social media.
strken 3y ago
Toxic masculinity as commonly used outside academia is very amorphous concept. It's more like a "green" car than an electric one. We all more or less agree that some cars are environmentally friendly and some aren't, but not where the dividing line is. If toxic masculinity encompasses a big chunk of masculinity, if there's no clear definition of non-toxic masculinity that's actually masculine, and if toxic femininity isn't ever discussed, it can seem like masculinity is considered to be an overall toxic trait while femininity isn't. I think the GP was responding to the broader idea that masculinity is especially toxic in comparison to everything else, rather than the narrow "some men light themselves on fire to prove they're macho and get hurt, and that's bad" defensible academic usage.

klipt 3y ago

Sounds like a dog whistle to me. If someone talked constantly about, say, "toxic women", would you really believe they were only talking about a subset?

irrational 3y ago
Well, people do talk about Karens, shrews, bitches, etc. which all seem to be different kinds of toxic women. Maybe there are just more named subsets for toxic women than for men?
- anon291 3y ago
  There are academic articles on karens, shrews and bitches? You're claiming that the worst used in 4chan, reddit, and popular magazines carry the same societal weight as academic articles in policy and sociology journals. They don't.
- klipt 3y ago
  ...isn't using the word "bitches" widely considered a dog whistle for hating all women? Seems like you're agreeing with me.

Jensson 3y ago

They really should change phrases like this that causes a lot of confusion and misunderstandings before changing stuff like "whitelist".

dryanau 3y ago

I doubt there's any confusion. The purported meaning of the phrase is clear. But its usage in practice is often (but not always) quite punishing toward masculinity in general.

corbezzoli 3y ago

You're technically right, but then please note how the phrase "not all men…" is handled by social media.

strken 3y ago

Toxic masculinity as commonly used outside academia is very amorphous concept. It's more like a "green" car than an electric one. We all more or less agree that some cars are environmentally friendly and some aren't, but not where the dividing line is. If toxic masculinity encompasses a big chunk of masculinity, if there's no clear definition of non-toxic masculinity that's actually masculine, and if toxic femininity isn't ever discussed, it can seem like masculinity is considered to be an overall toxic trait while femininity isn't. I think the GP was responding to the broader idea that masculinity is especially toxic in comparison to everything else, rather than the narrow "some men light themselves on fire to prove they're macho and get hurt, and that's bad" defensible academic usage.