5 ms·

Given their recent behavior with round up (they let it be sprayed on crops at harvest — I’m surprised it doesn’t have to go on the ingredient list!), the bar fo

by hedora 3y ago

Given their recent behavior with round up (they let it be sprayed on crops at harvest — I’m surprised it doesn’t have to go on the ingredient list!), the bar for fast tracking this without safety studies should be “the execs, regulators, and their families drink a gallon”, not “the day laborers at the farm wear respirators, and we don’t perform any follow up checks on their health”.

siftrics 3y ago
I've always been a fan of this. If RoundUp is so safe, why don't the execs and lawyers and shills all douse themselves in it? It'd prove their alleged point against the guy who got horrible lesions and cancer all over his body after being exposed to it in a work accident.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gruez 3y ago
  But they never claimed that it was "so safe" that you can ingest or douse yourself in it? It says so right in the MSDS. https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Conc%20SDS%208-12-20.pdf https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Con...
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    That's what they're subjecting farm workers to.
    - gruez 3y ago
      Isn't that the farm's problem? At least in theory workers are supposed to be protected with PPE and/or proper procedures. Blaming them for the failure of that feels like blaming chainsaw manufacturers for causing hearing loss.
      - bastawhiz 3y ago
        If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud over and over again, but they won't actually put themselves in a situation where they themselves wield their own chainsaws because of safety concerns, then yeah, it's on them. If you're in the US, you've probably consumed glyphosate today. Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. If execs won't put themselves in the same position as the people handling their products, they're evil hypocritical bastards.
        gruez 3y ago
        > If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud We're going in circles here. As mentioned earlier the MSDS provided by bayer clearly says you shouldn't get it on your skin or ingest it. Therefore it's pretty clear that glyphosate isn't "safe", at least in those circumstances. >Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. You can make the same argument for chainsaws. Earmuffs aren't comfortable to wear in 100 degree weather. Should they be liable for hearing loss for the same reason?
        saiya-jin 3y ago
        Earmuffs in 100 may not be the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still perfectly fine to use for hours, you just sweat a bit more on ears and around. Also, if you want rest just stop cutting and put them down. I've seen forest workers use them all the time in summer heat. Now we switch to same conditions but requirement is to wear pretty good 'airtight' face mask. Most people would be nearing collapse after some time when doing some hard work, I know I had some proper hard time during covid when trying some rather low efforts. Those 2 examples are really not that comparable. Also, you very conveniently ignore the fact that chemical crap poisons everything, and ends up in my and your and my kid's food chain. Some chainsaw 20 km in the forest is really no such concern. I can go on and on like this. Really, not comparable examples at all. Yeah, fuck Bayer and all those involved, I am normally peaceful person but for those involved while knowing, or at least strongly suspecting the truth I wish only horrible things in their lives.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - jona-f 3y ago
    "Lobbyist Claims Monsanto's Roundup Is Safe To Drink, Freaks Out When Offered A Glass" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10
    - aesh2Xa1 3y ago
      That was incredible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) During an interview by French investigative journalist Paul Moreira, which was first broadcast on French television station Canal+, Moore was asked about the safety of the herbicide glyphosate. Moore told Moreira that one "could drink a whole quart of it" without any harm. When Moore was challenged to drink a glass of the weedkiller, he refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before ending the interview. Monsanto, the primary producers of glyphosate weedkillers under the Roundup brand, denied claims that Moore is a paid lobbyist for their company.[71][72][73] The interview came shortly after the release of a World Health Organization (WHO) report adding glyphosate to a list of probable carcinogens.[74][75]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- jzebedee 3y ago
  Even that stunt might not be enough for a sufficiently evil shill, e.g. Thomas Midgley Jr. He famously did a similar move at a press conference for tetraethyllead (TEL), where he washed his hands in the stuff to prove its safety: > On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Secret_7-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Se... It probably won't shock you that he frequently suffered from lead poisoning.
  - ars 3y ago
    Why you call him an evil shill? It sounds like he actually believed it. It's not evil to be wrong.
    - j-bos 3y ago
      There was evidence of the negative health effects from his own research.
    - flagrant_taco 3y ago
      I'm not sure how that line could be drawn. If a person does something that most would consider evil, but does it for reasons they honestly believed in which side is right? Some of the Nazis may have honestly believed that Jewish people were the cause of Germany's economic problems, but I don't think many would claim they were anything less than evil.
      - notrlyskeptik 3y ago
        [dead]
      - 6510 3y ago
        The line isn't drawn at the quality of their indoctrination or the evil doers world view. We judge by our own indoctrination and world view. We for example don't do trial by ethnicity. We don't give a rats ass if the people who caused the German economic problems were Jewish.
- refurb 3y ago
  You believe table salt is safe? Ok! I want you to eat 500 g of salt and we'll see just how safe it is!
hanniabu 3y ago
> Given their recent behavior with round up (they let it be sprayed on crops at harvest — I’m surprised it doesn’t have to go on the ingredient list Source?
- hedora 3y ago
  A search for "roundup drying agent" will produce dozens of sources. Here's a link to a story about a bill from 2019 that would have banned the practice in the US (it did not pass): https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/bill-would-ban-late-harvest-spraying-roundup-weedkiller-oats https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/bill-would-ba... Note that the bill would restore the permissible residue levels to the previous limit, which is 1/300th the current limit. The limit was raised in order to allow the practice in the US.
  - hanniabu 3y ago
    Fuck i hate capitalism
    - mike_ivanov 3y ago
      Dude. Let me tell you a story. I was 13 years old, a schoolboy on a trip to the countryside to "help" farm workers to harvest cabbages. It was a routine thing those days because the centralized Soviet industrial-government apparatus couldn't properly plan even such trivial things. There were about a hundred kids on that field. As we went with our business, a tractor spraying DDT came from the other side of the field. It passed us no more than 20 meters away, spraying everything around with the clouds of white stuff. Everybody knew it was DDT, everybody knew it was poisonous at that time. Our teacher approached the tractor and asked the operator to wait until we are done; the guy basically told her to fuck off and went on with spraying. Now go ahead and tell me about capitalism, I'm all ears.
      - hanniabu 3y ago
        I think you thought this story would somehow nullify that capitalism is bad
DoingIsLearning 3y ago
Taleb popularized the myth but I like the usenet quote from Dewar better: "When Roman engineers built a bridge, they had to stand under it while the first legion marched across. If programmers today worked under similar ground rules, they might well find themselves getting much more interested in Ada!" (Robert Dewar)
KennyBlanken 3y ago
If you think they're provided respirators or can afford to buy them and the cartridges, I have a bridge to sell you. Also, try wearing one in a hot field working your ass off...anyone claiming that field workers are wearing respirators is crazy.
TheBigSalad 3y ago
Why would they spray it on crops?
- aethertap 3y ago
  Apparently it's done to dry out tough perennial weeds so that harvest can run more smoothly, and also for crop desiccation (getting the harvest to dry uniformly by killing all of the plants simultaneously). https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2020/harvest-aid-herbicide-options-soybean https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2020/harvest-aid-herbicide-options... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_desiccation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_desiccation

by hedora 3y ago

siftrics 3y ago

I've always been a fan of this. If RoundUp is so safe, why don't the execs and lawyers and shills all douse themselves in it? It'd prove their alleged point against the guy who got horrible lesions and cancer all over his body after being exposed to it in a work accident.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gruez 3y ago
But they never claimed that it was "so safe" that you can ingest or douse yourself in it? It says so right in the MSDS. https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Conc%20SDS%208-12-20.pdf https://labelsds.com/images/user_uploads/Roundup%20Pro%20Con...
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  That's what they're subjecting farm workers to.
  - gruez 3y ago
    Isn't that the farm's problem? At least in theory workers are supposed to be protected with PPE and/or proper procedures. Blaming them for the failure of that feels like blaming chainsaw manufacturers for causing hearing loss.
    - bastawhiz 3y ago
      If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud over and over again, but they won't actually put themselves in a situation where they themselves wield their own chainsaws because of safety concerns, then yeah, it's on them. If you're in the US, you've probably consumed glyphosate today. Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. If execs won't put themselves in the same position as the people handling their products, they're evil hypocritical bastards.
      - gruez 3y ago
        > If the chainsaw company executives have to repeatedly try to convince the government that their product is actually safe despite being excessively loud We're going in circles here. As mentioned earlier the MSDS provided by bayer clearly says you shouldn't get it on your skin or ingest it. Therefore it's pretty clear that glyphosate isn't "safe", at least in those circumstances. >Farm workers wearing PPE will be exposed to elevated levels of glyphosate no matter how hard they try because humans aren't perfect. You can make the same argument for chainsaws. Earmuffs aren't comfortable to wear in 100 degree weather. Should they be liable for hearing loss for the same reason?
        saiya-jin 3y ago
        Earmuffs in 100 may not be the most comfortable thing in the world, but its still perfectly fine to use for hours, you just sweat a bit more on ears and around. Also, if you want rest just stop cutting and put them down. I've seen forest workers use them all the time in summer heat. Now we switch to same conditions but requirement is to wear pretty good 'airtight' face mask. Most people would be nearing collapse after some time when doing some hard work, I know I had some proper hard time during covid when trying some rather low efforts. Those 2 examples are really not that comparable. Also, you very conveniently ignore the fact that chemical crap poisons everything, and ends up in my and your and my kid's food chain. Some chainsaw 20 km in the forest is really no such concern. I can go on and on like this. Really, not comparable examples at all. Yeah, fuck Bayer and all those involved, I am normally peaceful person but for those involved while knowing, or at least strongly suspecting the truth I wish only horrible things in their lives.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jona-f 3y ago
  "Lobbyist Claims Monsanto's Roundup Is Safe To Drink, Freaks Out When Offered A Glass" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovKw6YjqSfM&t=10
  - aesh2Xa1 3y ago
    That was incredible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_(consultant) During an interview by French investigative journalist Paul Moreira, which was first broadcast on French television station Canal+, Moore was asked about the safety of the herbicide glyphosate. Moore told Moreira that one "could drink a whole quart of it" without any harm. When Moore was challenged to drink a glass of the weedkiller, he refused, saying "I'm not an idiot" and "I'm not stupid" before ending the interview. Monsanto, the primary producers of glyphosate weedkillers under the Roundup brand, denied claims that Moore is a paid lobbyist for their company.[71][72][73] The interview came shortly after the release of a World Health Organization (WHO) report adding glyphosate to a list of probable carcinogens.[74][75]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jzebedee 3y ago
Even that stunt might not be enough for a sufficiently evil shill, e.g. Thomas Midgley Jr. He famously did a similar move at a press conference for tetraethyllead (TEL), where he washed his hands in the stuff to prove its safety: > On October 30, 1924, Midgley participated in a press conference to demonstrate the apparent safety of TEL, in which he poured TEL over his hands, placed a bottle of the chemical under his nose, and inhaled its vapor for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without succumbing to any problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Secret_7-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley_Jr.#cite_ref-Se... It probably won't shock you that he frequently suffered from lead poisoning.
- ars 3y ago
  Why you call him an evil shill? It sounds like he actually believed it. It's not evil to be wrong.
  - j-bos 3y ago
    There was evidence of the negative health effects from his own research.
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    I'm not sure how that line could be drawn. If a person does something that most would consider evil, but does it for reasons they honestly believed in which side is right? Some of the Nazis may have honestly believed that Jewish people were the cause of Germany's economic problems, but I don't think many would claim they were anything less than evil.
    - notrlyskeptik 3y ago
      [dead]
    - 6510 3y ago
      The line isn't drawn at the quality of their indoctrination or the evil doers world view. We judge by our own indoctrination and world view. We for example don't do trial by ethnicity. We don't give a rats ass if the people who caused the German economic problems were Jewish.
refurb 3y ago
You believe table salt is safe? Ok! I want you to eat 500 g of salt and we'll see just how safe it is!

hanniabu 3y ago

> Given their recent behavior with round up (they let it be sprayed on crops at harvest — I’m surprised it doesn’t have to go on the ingredient list Source?

hedora 3y ago
A search for "roundup drying agent" will produce dozens of sources. Here's a link to a story about a bill from 2019 that would have banned the practice in the US (it did not pass): https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/bill-would-ban-late-harvest-spraying-roundup-weedkiller-oats https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/bill-would-ba... Note that the bill would restore the permissible residue levels to the previous limit, which is 1/300th the current limit. The limit was raised in order to allow the practice in the US.
- hanniabu 3y ago
  Fuck i hate capitalism
  - mike_ivanov 3y ago
    Dude. Let me tell you a story. I was 13 years old, a schoolboy on a trip to the countryside to "help" farm workers to harvest cabbages. It was a routine thing those days because the centralized Soviet industrial-government apparatus couldn't properly plan even such trivial things. There were about a hundred kids on that field. As we went with our business, a tractor spraying DDT came from the other side of the field. It passed us no more than 20 meters away, spraying everything around with the clouds of white stuff. Everybody knew it was DDT, everybody knew it was poisonous at that time. Our teacher approached the tractor and asked the operator to wait until we are done; the guy basically told her to fuck off and went on with spraying. Now go ahead and tell me about capitalism, I'm all ears.
    - hanniabu 3y ago
      I think you thought this story would somehow nullify that capitalism is bad

DoingIsLearning 3y ago

Taleb popularized the myth but I like the usenet quote from Dewar better: "When Roman engineers built a bridge, they had to stand under it while the first legion marched across. If programmers today worked under similar ground rules, they might well find themselves getting much more interested in Ada!" (Robert Dewar)

KennyBlanken 3y ago

If you think they're provided respirators or can afford to buy them and the cartridges, I have a bridge to sell you. Also, try wearing one in a hot field working your ass off...anyone claiming that field workers are wearing respirators is crazy.

TheBigSalad 3y ago

Why would they spray it on crops?

aethertap 3y ago
Apparently it's done to dry out tough perennial weeds so that harvest can run more smoothly, and also for crop desiccation (getting the harvest to dry uniformly by killing all of the plants simultaneously). https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2020/harvest-aid-herbicide-options-soybean https://cropwatch.unl.edu/2020/harvest-aid-herbicide-options... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_desiccation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_desiccation