6 ms·

> The Dell XPS 13 is the best-known developer-focused, high-end Linux laptop. Not a good ol' ThinkPad T-series?

simonebrunozzi 3y ago
I guess not anymore. I'd say that until a bunch of years ago, you'd be right. Nowadays, I don't see Thinkpads often anymore. My 0.02.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  I see them everywhere. On the last 4 companies I worked straight, they were either the only option, or an option between ThinkPad or Mac.
- wrd83 3y ago
  Unfortunately. Even a T490 beats an XPS13 easily. I own both and I'm happy I switched back to ThinkPads.
  - _cenw 3y ago
    The T490 is the worst ThinkPad generation to buy right now. The generation they took out the removable battery, soldered half the RAM and generally made some other anti-improvements. So you get the oldest hardware without any of the pre-redesign benefits. I guess the T495 is worse. Those first gen Zen chips are just terrible.
    - roblh 3y ago
      Really liking my refurb t480 with Ubuntu, however the most annoying thing is that it’s seemingly impossible to get the 2 finger swipe back trackpad gesture working. Otherwise it’s been great.
      - kuschku 3y ago
        Switch the trackpad with that of the X1C, and it'll work flawlessly. I did the same on my T470.
gtvwill 3y ago
Have fixed multiple hundreds of laptops over about a decade across hundreds of clients. I've literally seen one ThinkPad the whole time. It had some weird ass 1.8 inch storage drive down one of the side rails of the chassis which is why I remembered it. The machine was wack af from a repair techs pov. Makes me feel like they aren't that popular outside of IT departments.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Because they don't break as much?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - gtvwill 3y ago
    You'd still expect to see them in the offices. Some of these places run > 10'000 devices. All dell. Not a Lenovo on site. Maybe dell just had a better salesman up this neck of the woods. I was a Lenovo and Dell tech at the time so it's not like I wasn't sent to work on them. Just bugger all of them around here. I was the only warranty tech for like 250km.
    - kwanbix 3y ago
      In my last 6 years I worked on a company with 200 employees, a company with 60.000 employees, another company with 500 employees, and the last one with 150 employees. All laptops are either Lenovo or Macbooks. Like you said, maybe in your part of the world Dell is more popular for some reason.
gtaylor 3y ago
Quality went downhill since Lenovo.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Meh, I'd agree that they aren't quite built like a tank anymore, but my T560 is still going strong after nearly 8 years. Not bad going.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >my T560 is still going strong after nearly 8 years Yeah but he was talking about modern Lenovos, not 8 year old ones.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      And my 3 year old Lenovo is doing fine. 6 year old T series that the kids adopted is also taking abuse well.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      Lenovo bought ThinkPad in 2005. The T560 was released in 2016, 11 years later. Plenty of time for the supposed reductions in quality to have occurred.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Yeah but that doesn't mean anything for the Lenovo laptops of today.
        MattPalmer1086 3y ago
        Well, he didn't say recent Lenovos were poor quality. He said they went downhill after Lenovo, which was 18 years ago. So what quality issues affect them now specifically? I will be in the market for another laptop in a year or so, and my default would always be a ThinkPad.
juujian 3y ago
Also, having looked at their lineup recently, the number of Ubuntu laptops they offer really seems to have gone down
- nextos 3y ago
  Aside from Dell, ThinkPad, Framework, and StarLabs are great premium laptops that can be bought with Linux and have good well-supported hardware. What is the best premium option? I gravitate towards a AMD Ryzen ThinkPad, either a X13 or a T14s. X1C are only offered with Intel CPUs, which seem a bit inferior in terms of performance and heat / energy usage. Macs with Asahi are an interesting option, but it is still missing support for fundamental items, e.g. sound.
- Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
  Just talked with a Sales person yesterday. Indeed, from the new models, only the XPS 13 runs Ubuntu, but the keyboard looks like a nightmare. The sales person did send a link to a Precision with Ubuntu option, but it was 2022 model (Precision 5570). Will probably get XPS 15 and put Ubuntu on myself. Annoying to fork money over to Microsoft for nothing.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Be careful, and do your research when buying Windows XPS's. I had to send my last one (2019 I think) back because the fingerprint readers weren't supported and the Developer editions with Linux just omitted the fingerprint reader. No interest from Dell to get drivers made for them. I have no idea if there are bits on the 2023 Windows edition that aren't supported. It might all be fine.
    - Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
      Good point. I'm fine just doing with fingerprint reader, did you send it back because you wanted that feature, or was it causing some deeper issue? I was thinking to go for the XPS 15 since it's rated as the best overall Linux laptop in 2023 by Zdnet[1] and xda-developers[2]. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-linux-laptop/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-linux-laptop/ [2] https://www.xda-developers.com/best-laptops-linux/ https://www.xda-developers.com/best-laptops-linux/
jwells89 3y ago
It seems like these days, the X1 series is considered the ThinkPad flagship. That's where I've seen the best chances of getting hardware that's compatible with Linux OOTB and performs well with it (e.g. Intel WiFi/BT).
- wmf 3y ago
  If you order with Linux preinstalled the chance is close to 100%.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    For components to work OOTB with Linux yes, but perform well is a different story. There's plenty of parts that technically work with Linux but in practice have sub-par performance and it's easy to wind up with them if one isn't careful.
- kakwa_ 3y ago
  Honestly, these days, I would be surprised to not have Linux hardware support with any PC I might buy. At least, in my experience with the 3 brand new computers I got (T460s in 2016, T14s in 2021, Custom Desktop (Ryzen 5, ATI 7900 XT)), everything worked out of the box. It's been ages since I had a real issue (like the dreaded Broadcom wifi cards back in the days).
  - Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
    When I first starting using Ubuntu 10+ years ago, getting a new laptop was like going to battle. My patience has gone down for this stuff as I've gotten older, but fortunately it's gotten commensurately easier every year.
_joel 3y ago
Many fond memories of my X21 P3 and X220 (i5 iirc). Good little machines. Debian and Gentoo, never had issues (I recall anyway!).
stavros 3y ago
Framework would also like a word. I love mine.
q-base 3y ago
I have the Gen 9 X1 Carbon running Ubuntu. It has been my daily driver for years without any issues. Whether it is developer focussed can probably be discussed, but it has to be considered high-end.

I guess not anymore. I'd say that until a bunch of years ago, you'd be right. Nowadays, I don't see Thinkpads often anymore. My 0.02.

kwanbix 3y ago
I see them everywhere. On the last 4 companies I worked straight, they were either the only option, or an option between ThinkPad or Mac.
wrd83 3y ago
Unfortunately. Even a T490 beats an XPS13 easily. I own both and I'm happy I switched back to ThinkPads.
- _cenw 3y ago
  The T490 is the worst ThinkPad generation to buy right now. The generation they took out the removable battery, soldered half the RAM and generally made some other anti-improvements. So you get the oldest hardware without any of the pre-redesign benefits. I guess the T495 is worse. Those first gen Zen chips are just terrible.
  - roblh 3y ago
    Really liking my refurb t480 with Ubuntu, however the most annoying thing is that it’s seemingly impossible to get the 2 finger swipe back trackpad gesture working. Otherwise it’s been great.
    - kuschku 3y ago
      Switch the trackpad with that of the X1C, and it'll work flawlessly. I did the same on my T470.

gtvwill 3y ago

Have fixed multiple hundreds of laptops over about a decade across hundreds of clients. I've literally seen one ThinkPad the whole time. It had some weird ass 1.8 inch storage drive down one of the side rails of the chassis which is why I remembered it. The machine was wack af from a repair techs pov. Makes me feel like they aren't that popular outside of IT departments.

kwanbix 3y ago
Because they don't break as much?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- gtvwill 3y ago
  You'd still expect to see them in the offices. Some of these places run > 10'000 devices. All dell. Not a Lenovo on site. Maybe dell just had a better salesman up this neck of the woods. I was a Lenovo and Dell tech at the time so it's not like I wasn't sent to work on them. Just bugger all of them around here. I was the only warranty tech for like 250km.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    In my last 6 years I worked on a company with 200 employees, a company with 60.000 employees, another company with 500 employees, and the last one with 150 employees. All laptops are either Lenovo or Macbooks. Like you said, maybe in your part of the world Dell is more popular for some reason.

gtaylor 3y ago

Quality went downhill since Lenovo.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Meh, I'd agree that they aren't quite built like a tank anymore, but my T560 is still going strong after nearly 8 years. Not bad going.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >my T560 is still going strong after nearly 8 years Yeah but he was talking about modern Lenovos, not 8 year old ones.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    And my 3 year old Lenovo is doing fine. 6 year old T series that the kids adopted is also taking abuse well.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    Lenovo bought ThinkPad in 2005. The T560 was released in 2016, 11 years later. Plenty of time for the supposed reductions in quality to have occurred.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Yeah but that doesn't mean anything for the Lenovo laptops of today.
      - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
        Well, he didn't say recent Lenovos were poor quality. He said they went downhill after Lenovo, which was 18 years ago. So what quality issues affect them now specifically? I will be in the market for another laptop in a year or so, and my default would always be a ThinkPad.

juujian 3y ago

Also, having looked at their lineup recently, the number of Ubuntu laptops they offer really seems to have gone down

nextos 3y ago
Aside from Dell, ThinkPad, Framework, and StarLabs are great premium laptops that can be bought with Linux and have good well-supported hardware. What is the best premium option? I gravitate towards a AMD Ryzen ThinkPad, either a X13 or a T14s. X1C are only offered with Intel CPUs, which seem a bit inferior in terms of performance and heat / energy usage. Macs with Asahi are an interesting option, but it is still missing support for fundamental items, e.g. sound.
Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
Just talked with a Sales person yesterday. Indeed, from the new models, only the XPS 13 runs Ubuntu, but the keyboard looks like a nightmare. The sales person did send a link to a Precision with Ubuntu option, but it was 2022 model (Precision 5570). Will probably get XPS 15 and put Ubuntu on myself. Annoying to fork money over to Microsoft for nothing.
- happymellon 3y ago
  Be careful, and do your research when buying Windows XPS's. I had to send my last one (2019 I think) back because the fingerprint readers weren't supported and the Developer editions with Linux just omitted the fingerprint reader. No interest from Dell to get drivers made for them. I have no idea if there are bits on the 2023 Windows edition that aren't supported. It might all be fine.
  - Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
    Good point. I'm fine just doing with fingerprint reader, did you send it back because you wanted that feature, or was it causing some deeper issue? I was thinking to go for the XPS 15 since it's rated as the best overall Linux laptop in 2023 by Zdnet[1] and xda-developers[2]. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-linux-laptop/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/best-linux-laptop/ [2] https://www.xda-developers.com/best-laptops-linux/ https://www.xda-developers.com/best-laptops-linux/

jwells89 3y ago

It seems like these days, the X1 series is considered the ThinkPad flagship. That's where I've seen the best chances of getting hardware that's compatible with Linux OOTB and performs well with it (e.g. Intel WiFi/BT).

wmf 3y ago
If you order with Linux preinstalled the chance is close to 100%.
- jwells89 3y ago
  For components to work OOTB with Linux yes, but perform well is a different story. There's plenty of parts that technically work with Linux but in practice have sub-par performance and it's easy to wind up with them if one isn't careful.
kakwa_ 3y ago
Honestly, these days, I would be surprised to not have Linux hardware support with any PC I might buy. At least, in my experience with the 3 brand new computers I got (T460s in 2016, T14s in 2021, Custom Desktop (Ryzen 5, ATI 7900 XT)), everything worked out of the box. It's been ages since I had a real issue (like the dreaded Broadcom wifi cards back in the days).
- Old_Thrashbarg 3y ago
  When I first starting using Ubuntu 10+ years ago, getting a new laptop was like going to battle. My patience has gone down for this stuff as I've gotten older, but fortunately it's gotten commensurately easier every year.

_joel 3y ago

Many fond memories of my X21 P3 and X220 (i5 iirc). Good little machines. Debian and Gentoo, never had issues (I recall anyway!).

stavros 3y ago

Framework would also like a word. I love mine.

q-base 3y ago

I have the Gen 9 X1 Carbon running Ubuntu. It has been my daily driver for years without any issues. Whether it is developer focussed can probably be discussed, but it has to be considered high-end.