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Such language policing is double-plus-ungood. (For those that haven’t read the classic Nineteen-eighty-four book by Eric Arthur Blair (pen name: George Orwell)
by dijit 3y ago
Such language policing is double-plus-ungood.
(For those that haven’t read the classic Nineteen-eighty-four book by Eric Arthur Blair (pen name: George Orwell) one of the core themes of the story is how the ruling party controlled language, calling it “newspeak”, in order to remove the ability to express certain thoughts or opinions, most notably those that could be used to incite revolution or allow you to express discontent.)
- swayvil 3y agoWe have a local mind-control cult where I live. When asked they'll retort "why yes, we are a mind control cult. We teach you how to control your mind." ...but that isn't what I meant. Controlling the language. It's a big thing.
- JohnFen 3y ago> Controlling the language. It's a big thing. And that's underselling how big it is. Language is the API to our brains. That's at least half the point Orwell's 1984 makes.
- pstuart 3y agoChomsky has entered the chat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
- swayvil 3y agoI get what you mean. But we also have this thing called Science. Where a firsthand encounter with nonlinguistic reality is considered key. And Science has proven its power over and over. And you'd think that would impress people. Even if you lay the forms and products of our modern scientific culture aside. Just that philosophy. The supremacy of observation. You'd think it would lead to a momentary pause in the babble. But no.
- JohnFen 3y agoI don't think that what you're saying and what I'm saying are mutually exclusive at all. Science is how we tease out truths about reality. Language is about how we communicate and is closely linked with cognition.
- swayvil 3y agoI didn't mean to suggest that they are mutually exclusive. Just that this sphere of language definitely has a limit. (Which leads to various important stuff)
- everdrive 3y agoIt's interesting that you have a local cult. What's it called?
- swayvil 3y agoSchool of the Prophets (or something like that). A flavor of Sufis.
- pstuart 3y agoA dear friend was, if not a follower, at least quite friendly to sufism. I found her points about it intriguing and worthy of contemplation. If I was going to join a cult then that might be the one to join ;-). Of course there's a significant difference between a belief system and a group that practices that belief under a charismatic and dogmatic leader....
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- paulluuk 3y agoI find that conservatives most often quote "Nineteen-eighty-four" as a comment on "politically correct" language. But when asked about "family values", "obamacare", "right to work" and other conservative double-speak, they often don't feel like those apply. My point is not that conservatives use more double-speak/newspeak then progressives, rather my point is that this is used and applied across the political spectrum, and even in the military ("enhanced interrogation", "collateral damage") and corporations ("restructuring", "cost engineering").
- bigDinosaur 3y agoHow is 'collateral damage' newspeak? It's a useful concept even if you want to avoid it at all costs, but beyond that euphemisms have existed forever and are not the same as newspeak (which wanted to make something literally unthinkable, not merely euphemistic).
- lc9er 3y agoIt's soft language for 'civilian casualties', even though it can include other things like property destruction.
- SenAnder 3y agoWhich term would you use to distinguish between deliberate and accidental civilian casualties?
- Swizec 3y agoDoes the father whose daughter didn’t come home from school care if the “civilian casualty” was deliberate or accidental? “Stop killing kids” sounds much more impactful than “establish rules of engagement to minimize collateral damage”. Language matters. Similarly: Does the worker without a job care whether they were fired, laid off, or affected by a reduction in force? Probably not. But “affected by a reduction in force” sure makes it easier for leadership to press the button.
- 3y ago
- paulddraper 3y agoIf time travel exists, 1984 is exhibit A.
- lightedman 3y ago"Such language policing is double-plus-ungood." And yet such behavior happens right here on this very site. Why do you tolerate it?
- dijit 3y agoYou should take a dive in my comment history. I very much do not tolerate it.