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The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them

The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them. They’re obviously not the same thing. During those thousands of years where humans personally slaughtered animals, they often built complete philosophies around their relationship to those animals. Those philosophies are way, way more complex and personally involved than the modern grocery shopping experience, obviously.

Jensson 3y ago
> The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them Is this really true? People who kill animals for a living doesn't have any emotions about it, watching them do it is like watching them cut a tomato.
- dpkirchner 3y ago
  You're talking about relatively few people -- I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. There's a reason big-ag farmers are afraid people will see videos showing their operations. So afraid that they pay off politicians to ban such video recording.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. But why would they be more disturbing than watching a person slaughtering and cutting up an animal? You didn't answer the question, you just said that one was disturbing, not why one was more disturbing than the other.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Why is it relevant whether one can put a finger on the difference? The claim was that people use their economic distance from meat production to protect themselves from the negative feelings that would be created if they had to do it themselves, especially in the manner of factory farming. Anyway my theory for the distinction is 1) the scale of suffering is obviously far far greater than family-scale slaughter and 2) the way in which we do factory farming reflects poorly on us as a species. If people had to see their livestock suffer, they would make a different calculation of how much meat to eat and how to handle that animal while it’s alive. As someone else mentioned, this isn’t some crazy avant garde hypothesis: this is exactly why mass meat producers don’t want people filming their operations. The prior argument that “people always killed animals!” is irrelevant. They certainly did not kill animals the way we do today and again, this is evidenced in the belief systems that emerged during times where people couldn’t afford to be hundreds of miles removed from the production of their food.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > Why is it relevant whether one can put a finger on the difference? You brought this up, not me. > 1) the scale of suffering is obviously far far greater than family-scale slaughter Not if every family has to slaughter their own meat, the scale is the same just distributed so you don't see it. > 2) the way in which we do factory farming reflects poorly on us as a species This isn't inherent to factory farming though, just the ways it is done in some places. And this goes for family farming as well, some families would put animals in small cages and not take care of them to save money and because they are lazy. If you filmed them and their animals I don't think people would feel any different.
        ethanbond 3y ago
        No, I pointed out the difference, which is obviously real. The reason for the difference is irrelevant. Uhhh no, the scale certainly wouldn’t be the same. An average American eats more than a hundred animals per year. You can’t seriously think people would be consuming at that rate, or could even afford to consume at that rate, without factory farming. > some families [abuse their animals]… people wouldn’t feel any different We literally put people in jail for abusing their animals, so yes, they actually do feel differently about it.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- frank_nitti 3y ago
  Almost certainly, we’re talking about videos where batches of animals are kept suffering in tiny cages and the slaughter is done by machines. Watching a bunch of live hatchlings get sucked into some grinder is not the same as watching a Halal killing or some tribal hunting ritual. Those videos turned my stomach, and almost everyone I know who has watched them admits the same. My friends and I all still eat meat, but no question that might change if we had to watch those videos on how our mass produced cheap meat products are made.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > Watching a bunch of live hatchlings get sucked into some grinder is not the same as watching a Halal killing or some tribal hunting ritual. You aren't comparing like for like, most people who kill animals doesn't perform a ritual, they just kill it. Also you can't compare a video trying to show something in a positive light "ritual killing" vs a video trying to show something in a negative light. If they showed you a video about a slaughter that went wrong, the animal is crying as the slaughterer ends it, blood everywhere, then people would feel very bad as well. Or if they showed you a slaughterer joking about as he was slaughtering animals, you probably would feel more as well. Those things are the reality of traditional killing, I don't see how it is any better than a machine doing it. The end result is the same. The main difference is that we no longer need to train a lot of people to be killing machines like we did before.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      The main difference is the scale of suffering that we are choosing to create because we simply prefer the flavor of meat over other sources of nutrients.

Jensson 3y ago

> The emotions one feels watching a video of a factory farm are very, very different from what one feels watching a family raise some livestock and then kill them Is this really true? People who kill animals for a living doesn't have any emotions about it, watching them do it is like watching them cut a tomato.

dpkirchner 3y ago
You're talking about relatively few people -- I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. There's a reason big-ag farmers are afraid people will see videos showing their operations. So afraid that they pay off politicians to ban such video recording.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > I too would bet that most people (those of us not working in slaughterhouses) would find videos from factory farms disturbing. But why would they be more disturbing than watching a person slaughtering and cutting up an animal? You didn't answer the question, you just said that one was disturbing, not why one was more disturbing than the other.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Why is it relevant whether one can put a finger on the difference? The claim was that people use their economic distance from meat production to protect themselves from the negative feelings that would be created if they had to do it themselves, especially in the manner of factory farming. Anyway my theory for the distinction is 1) the scale of suffering is obviously far far greater than family-scale slaughter and 2) the way in which we do factory farming reflects poorly on us as a species. If people had to see their livestock suffer, they would make a different calculation of how much meat to eat and how to handle that animal while it’s alive. As someone else mentioned, this isn’t some crazy avant garde hypothesis: this is exactly why mass meat producers don’t want people filming their operations. The prior argument that “people always killed animals!” is irrelevant. They certainly did not kill animals the way we do today and again, this is evidenced in the belief systems that emerged during times where people couldn’t afford to be hundreds of miles removed from the production of their food.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > Why is it relevant whether one can put a finger on the difference? You brought this up, not me. > 1) the scale of suffering is obviously far far greater than family-scale slaughter Not if every family has to slaughter their own meat, the scale is the same just distributed so you don't see it. > 2) the way in which we do factory farming reflects poorly on us as a species This isn't inherent to factory farming though, just the ways it is done in some places. And this goes for family farming as well, some families would put animals in small cages and not take care of them to save money and because they are lazy. If you filmed them and their animals I don't think people would feel any different.
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        No, I pointed out the difference, which is obviously real. The reason for the difference is irrelevant. Uhhh no, the scale certainly wouldn’t be the same. An average American eats more than a hundred animals per year. You can’t seriously think people would be consuming at that rate, or could even afford to consume at that rate, without factory farming. > some families [abuse their animals]… people wouldn’t feel any different We literally put people in jail for abusing their animals, so yes, they actually do feel differently about it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
frank_nitti 3y ago
Almost certainly, we’re talking about videos where batches of animals are kept suffering in tiny cages and the slaughter is done by machines. Watching a bunch of live hatchlings get sucked into some grinder is not the same as watching a Halal killing or some tribal hunting ritual. Those videos turned my stomach, and almost everyone I know who has watched them admits the same. My friends and I all still eat meat, but no question that might change if we had to watch those videos on how our mass produced cheap meat products are made.
- Jensson 3y ago
  > Watching a bunch of live hatchlings get sucked into some grinder is not the same as watching a Halal killing or some tribal hunting ritual. You aren't comparing like for like, most people who kill animals doesn't perform a ritual, they just kill it. Also you can't compare a video trying to show something in a positive light "ritual killing" vs a video trying to show something in a negative light. If they showed you a video about a slaughter that went wrong, the animal is crying as the slaughterer ends it, blood everywhere, then people would feel very bad as well. Or if they showed you a slaughterer joking about as he was slaughtering animals, you probably would feel more as well. Those things are the reality of traditional killing, I don't see how it is any better than a machine doing it. The end result is the same. The main difference is that we no longer need to train a lot of people to be killing machines like we did before.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    The main difference is the scale of suffering that we are choosing to create because we simply prefer the flavor of meat over other sources of nutrients.