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She points out many things that would help and yet I am unsure by how much. There is only so much land in and around most major cities. Anything “affordable” wi

She points out many things that would help and yet I am unsure by how much. There is only so much land in and around most major cities. Anything “affordable” with access to desirable things will not remain so for long. The most likely outcome in my mind is endless tracts of poorly thought out suburban development, more reliance on cars and less on public transit, thus exacerbating other problems. Yes SF has some special and critical issues but demand to live in and around the city will always outstrip supply. There are a few places that have tried to do suburban city planning well, but even if you buy into a walkable neighborhood with jobs, who stays put at a job for more than a few years? Most people will still want new opportunities that will put them back in their cars. I would love to think that remote work will solve some of this, but myself and many others do not find that fulfilling or sustainable in the same way as even being in the office 2-3 days a week. RTO is increasingly becoming a trend, which I personally find unfortunate but can understand. We can and should get rid of some dated zoning restrictions and ineffective leaders but it’s not going to be a panacea by any means.

hfuyf65 3y ago
It is kinda fascinating. I just returned from US roadtrip ( UT region ) and there is a lot of unused space. Remote could help with a lot of it were it not for 'old school management'( quotation marks, because that is the current PC terms for luddites ).
- nurple 3y ago
  Not only is there a lot of unused space, but the legislature and developer oligarchs are firmly in bed with each other. As an example, right in the heart of one of the fastest growing areas of the valley, one of the most prolific apartment building developers is being given tailor made QOZs on which to build low income units. Building on these gives the developer a perpetual abeyance on any capital gains, they don't have to pay tax on their profit at all! These QOZs were intended to incentivize the development of land in rural areas where development is not being done by the capital class, but are being abused to put money in the pockets of the rich to ensure there's somewhere to keep the slave class close by all the tech bros so they can cook their lunch. Heaven forbid they were actually used in rural areas and created jobs where these humans could leave the city and seek some semblance of self-determination.
- estebank 3y ago
  Paving over every square inch of the country is the opposite of a solution. The more we entrench ourselves everywhere, the more we are affected by natural phenomena like forest fires and flash floods. And that is without even considering the effects on the ecosystem. Turning Death Valley or Yosemite into a parking lot with a suburb attached isn't a good idea. We need to get past the frame of thinking that every american can and should have a white picket fence for their own personal green-grassed fiefdom. That's not sustainable.
  - Melchizedek 3y ago
    It is if you prevent the population from growing, meaning you have to limit immigration.
  - hfuyf65 3y ago
    [dead]
JCharante 3y ago
Residential skyscrapers + modern subway trains that go to suburbs made up of residential skyscrapers are the solution. I visited my friend in Kuala Lumpur. I went from downtown to outside the city in just 10-15 minutes and went direct from the metro station to the condo block, about 60 meters. These clusters of skyscrapers form mini cities with access to many necessities, and then you can just take the metro to other clusters. Or if you really want to, you can drive. Other cities have much better metro systems. Commuting to the office wouldn’t be so bad if it just meant taking a train for 20 minutes while you read HN. I’m lucky enough to live with my parents in a rural area, but if I ever move out to San Francisco or NYC for work I will probably try to find the smallest possible apartment. I don’t need a kitchen or table. I just need a bed, wardrobe, and lockable door. I’ve spent enough time in hostels around the world to know I could make it.
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  Another less infrastructure heavy option would be to build places to live with less parking, more mid rises (~5 stories), and good transit (this can just be dedicated bus lanes and traffic lights that switch automatically when a bus goes through at the cheapest)
- flatline 3y ago
  That sounds like a pretty amazing layout. Maybe in 100 years we will have something like that in the US! As a single person, I do not think living in a city is that big a challenge. Sure it’s expensive, you still have to hustle, but you can get a studio or roommates or even live with family, that is how people get by. Once you are partnered and have kids it becomes much more challenging. I know someone who raised a family of five kids in a 2BR in Chicago, it can be done. But it’s a cultural issue: that is what poor people do, and nobody wants to feel poor. So we expect to have a big house that is unaffordable in the city and we move to cheaper climes and commute. The nuclear family is a big part of the problem. Going back to multi-generational housing with little private space is not a super popular option, but Gen Z seems to be dipping their toes…
BurningFrog 3y ago
> There is only so much land in and around most major cities. It's weird that this is such a common thought in a world where Tokyo exists. You can build an almost unlimited number of floors on that limited land, and it has been done with brilliant results!

hfuyf65 3y ago

It is kinda fascinating. I just returned from US roadtrip ( UT region ) and there is a lot of unused space. Remote could help with a lot of it were it not for 'old school management'( quotation marks, because that is the current PC terms for luddites ).

nurple 3y ago
Not only is there a lot of unused space, but the legislature and developer oligarchs are firmly in bed with each other. As an example, right in the heart of one of the fastest growing areas of the valley, one of the most prolific apartment building developers is being given tailor made QOZs on which to build low income units. Building on these gives the developer a perpetual abeyance on any capital gains, they don't have to pay tax on their profit at all! These QOZs were intended to incentivize the development of land in rural areas where development is not being done by the capital class, but are being abused to put money in the pockets of the rich to ensure there's somewhere to keep the slave class close by all the tech bros so they can cook their lunch. Heaven forbid they were actually used in rural areas and created jobs where these humans could leave the city and seek some semblance of self-determination.
estebank 3y ago
Paving over every square inch of the country is the opposite of a solution. The more we entrench ourselves everywhere, the more we are affected by natural phenomena like forest fires and flash floods. And that is without even considering the effects on the ecosystem. Turning Death Valley or Yosemite into a parking lot with a suburb attached isn't a good idea. We need to get past the frame of thinking that every american can and should have a white picket fence for their own personal green-grassed fiefdom. That's not sustainable.
- Melchizedek 3y ago
  It is if you prevent the population from growing, meaning you have to limit immigration.
- hfuyf65 3y ago
  [dead]

JCharante 3y ago

Residential skyscrapers + modern subway trains that go to suburbs made up of residential skyscrapers are the solution. I visited my friend in Kuala Lumpur. I went from downtown to outside the city in just 10-15 minutes and went direct from the metro station to the condo block, about 60 meters. These clusters of skyscrapers form mini cities with access to many necessities, and then you can just take the metro to other clusters. Or if you really want to, you can drive. Other cities have much better metro systems. Commuting to the office wouldn’t be so bad if it just meant taking a train for 20 minutes while you read HN. I’m lucky enough to live with my parents in a rural area, but if I ever move out to San Francisco or NYC for work I will probably try to find the smallest possible apartment. I don’t need a kitchen or table. I just need a bed, wardrobe, and lockable door. I’ve spent enough time in hostels around the world to know I could make it.

Shawnj2 3y ago
Another less infrastructure heavy option would be to build places to live with less parking, more mid rises (~5 stories), and good transit (this can just be dedicated bus lanes and traffic lights that switch automatically when a bus goes through at the cheapest)
flatline 3y ago
That sounds like a pretty amazing layout. Maybe in 100 years we will have something like that in the US! As a single person, I do not think living in a city is that big a challenge. Sure it’s expensive, you still have to hustle, but you can get a studio or roommates or even live with family, that is how people get by. Once you are partnered and have kids it becomes much more challenging. I know someone who raised a family of five kids in a 2BR in Chicago, it can be done. But it’s a cultural issue: that is what poor people do, and nobody wants to feel poor. So we expect to have a big house that is unaffordable in the city and we move to cheaper climes and commute. The nuclear family is a big part of the problem. Going back to multi-generational housing with little private space is not a super popular option, but Gen Z seems to be dipping their toes…

BurningFrog 3y ago

> There is only so much land in and around most major cities. It's weird that this is such a common thought in a world where Tokyo exists. You can build an almost unlimited number of floors on that limited land, and it has been done with brilliant results!