8 ms·

Europe's largest copper producer is the victim of metal swindle worth $198M

174 points by ck45 3y ago

whutsurnaym 3y ago
Ea-nāṣir's revenge...
- r2_pilot 3y ago
  I believe that Ea-nāṣir is more well-known now than back then.
  - dmd 3y ago
    There are more people on HN than there were people in their entire civilization, so, yes.
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
      Is "well known" an absolute quantity?
- thelibrarian 3y ago
  More like “strikes again” - Ea-nāṣir was the dodgy copper seller.
gpvos 3y ago
https://archive.ph/OwcRL https://archive.ph/OwcRL
neverdot 3y ago
Paywall. I would love a feature to omit all paywall sites. Like what kagi has!
- codetrotter 3y ago
  Use the link someone else posted. https://archive.ph/OwcRL https://archive.ph/OwcRL
  - CodeWriter23 3y ago
    captcha loop
    - Eduard 3y ago
      are you using an adblocker or ad-filtering VPN such as Blokada or Pi-hole? Then temporarily turn them off, solve the captcha one more time. Then it should successfully progress to archive.ph/.to memento.
    - ChoGGi 3y ago
      The archive gents don't like CloudFlare DNS (or something along those lines).
- esdott 3y ago
  Sometimes, if Im quick enough, pressing the reader view on my phone shows the whole article. It doesn’t work on every site just some that are lazy and just throw a divider up on the screen without hiding the actual content. That worked for me here. Otherwise, I just use the archive links HN users post.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Disabling javascript generally works too. I actually browse default js disabled, and if it seems like a site isn't working, I enable JavaScript for that domain.
  - mywacaday 3y ago
    Somebody posted this in HN, if use save it as the URL of a bookmark and run it on a page with a divider on screen it will delete it often enough that I keep on my bookmarks bar. javascript:(function()%7Bdocument.querySelectorAll(%22body%20%22).forEach(function(node)%7Bif(%5B%22fixed%22%2C%22sticky%22%5D.includes(getComputedStyle(node).position))%7Bnode.parentNode.removeChild(node)%7D%7D)%3Bdocument.querySelectorAll(%22html%20%22).forEach(function(node)%7Bvar%20s%3DgetComputedStyle(node)%3Bif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7Dif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7Dif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7D%7D)%3Bvar%20htmlNode%3Ddocument.querySelector(%22html%22)%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7D)()%3B%0A
not_your_vase 3y ago
Reminds me of my first "real" job, many many years ago. I was working at a metal pipe retailer, helping them switching from one ERP/CRM to another. While moving the inventory between the systems we decided to also check the real inventory. It turned out that due to incorrectly using the previous system, there was quite a substantial shortage compared to the company's turnover. Anyway, it had to be reported somehow to the shareholders... suddenly the management "remembered" that the previous team lead from the storage department has just left a few weeks ago, everything is his fault, they put all responsibility on him (without pursuing any further actions). Ahhh, I really don't like some thing.
- caminante 3y ago
  Sketchy. Metals warehousing is notorious for embezzlement/fraud. My hypothesis is that everyone assumes it's too obvious to check or hard to steal.
  - teraflop 3y ago
    Matt Levine had a pretty entertaining explanation of a different incident earlier this year, involving futures contracts: > JPMorgan, which does not make batteries or cars, bought bags of abstract nickel years ago. It took delivery of that nickel, not in the sense that a truck full of nickel showed up on Park Avenue but in the sense that an entry was made, on the ledger of the warehouse, saying that the bags of nickel in Row X, Shelf Y now belonged to JPMorgan. > JPMorgan then used that nickel for its intended purposes for years. Those purposes were to write financial contracts referencing that nickel. The nickel worked perfectly well for those purposes — JPMorgan’s derivative contracts traded and paid off normally — for years, even though the nickel was not in fact nickel, just bags of rocks. > And then one day a warehouse worker, like, stubbed his toe against JPMorgan’s nickel and was like “hmm that’s not the sound nickel makes when you kick it” and opened the bags and found rocks. And then the [London Metal Exchange] dutifully reported that some nickel was not nickel, and JPMorgan’s nickel warrants were transformed into rocks warrants. But it’s all just a random accident? The purpose of JPMorgan’s nickel was not to be turned into batteries or cars, but to sit in a warehouse. It was doing a great job of that, until someone noticed! https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-21/jpmorgan-had-some-fake-nickel https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-21/jpmorg...
ChuckMcM 3y ago
To be fair, it sounds like insider based "embezzlement" right? Someone signed off on the scrap metal samples and didn't bother to have any testing of future deliveries? Or perhaps had someone sign off on future deliveries without checking their base metal content? Either way, insiders exploiting weak internal controls to personally profit is certainly one of the more common "thefts" mode, whether its employees taking things home from the store or accounts writing checks to their cousins against fake invoices. I often wonder if there is a correlation between companies with higher pay inequity and this sort of theft. One leg of the fraud triangle is because the fraudster has a sense that they "deserve it" after all.
arendtio 3y ago
So a few month ago this story (German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtxqMqCOus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtxqMqCOus And now they identified that the loss is actually about $200m?!? Sounds like they have a serious problem over there.
- _trampeltier 3y ago
  In Paderborn, some years ago, some guys did steal over 4500t steel from a steel tube company (Benteler). https://www.westfalen-blatt.de/owl/kreis-paderborn/paderborn/stahl-diebstahl-bei-benteler-wie-konnten-die-rohren-als-schrott-deklariert-werden-2695843 https://www.westfalen-blatt.de/owl/kreis-paderborn/paderborn...
Sebguer 3y ago
Amusing, vaguely similar story about a company that made loans based on collateral related to a ships that were to be broken up, that completely ignored the ship vanishing from tracking for years: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yieldstreet-under-examination-sec-fbi-loans-lost-vessels-alternative-investments-2020-8-1029497809 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yieldstreet-...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
debo_ 3y ago
\m/

174 points by ck45 3y ago

whutsurnaym 3y ago

Ea-nāṣir's revenge...

r2_pilot 3y ago
I believe that Ea-nāṣir is more well-known now than back then.
- dmd 3y ago
  There are more people on HN than there were people in their entire civilization, so, yes.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    Is "well known" an absolute quantity?
thelibrarian 3y ago
More like “strikes again” - Ea-nāṣir was the dodgy copper seller.

gpvos 3y ago

https://archive.ph/OwcRL https://archive.ph/OwcRL

neverdot 3y ago

Paywall. I would love a feature to omit all paywall sites. Like what kagi has!

codetrotter 3y ago
Use the link someone else posted. https://archive.ph/OwcRL https://archive.ph/OwcRL
- CodeWriter23 3y ago
  captcha loop
  - Eduard 3y ago
    are you using an adblocker or ad-filtering VPN such as Blokada or Pi-hole? Then temporarily turn them off, solve the captcha one more time. Then it should successfully progress to archive.ph/.to memento.
  - ChoGGi 3y ago
    The archive gents don't like CloudFlare DNS (or something along those lines).
esdott 3y ago
Sometimes, if Im quick enough, pressing the reader view on my phone shows the whole article. It doesn’t work on every site just some that are lazy and just throw a divider up on the screen without hiding the actual content. That worked for me here. Otherwise, I just use the archive links HN users post.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Disabling javascript generally works too. I actually browse default js disabled, and if it seems like a site isn't working, I enable JavaScript for that domain.
- mywacaday 3y ago
  Somebody posted this in HN, if use save it as the URL of a bookmark and run it on a page with a divider on screen it will delete it often enough that I keep on my bookmarks bar. javascript:(function()%7Bdocument.querySelectorAll(%22body%20%22).forEach(function(node)%7Bif(%5B%22fixed%22%2C%22sticky%22%5D.includes(getComputedStyle(node).position))%7Bnode.parentNode.removeChild(node)%7D%7D)%3Bdocument.querySelectorAll(%22html%20%22).forEach(function(node)%7Bvar%20s%3DgetComputedStyle(node)%3Bif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7Dif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7Dif(%22hidden%22%3D%3D%3Ds%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D)%7Bnode.style%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7D%7D)%3Bvar%20htmlNode%3Ddocument.querySelector(%22html%22)%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow-x%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%3BhtmlNode.style%5B%22overflow-y%22%5D%3D%22visible%22%7D)()%3B%0A

not_your_vase 3y ago

Reminds me of my first "real" job, many many years ago. I was working at a metal pipe retailer, helping them switching from one ERP/CRM to another. While moving the inventory between the systems we decided to also check the real inventory. It turned out that due to incorrectly using the previous system, there was quite a substantial shortage compared to the company's turnover. Anyway, it had to be reported somehow to the shareholders... suddenly the management "remembered" that the previous team lead from the storage department has just left a few weeks ago, everything is his fault, they put all responsibility on him (without pursuing any further actions). Ahhh, I really don't like some thing.

caminante 3y ago
Sketchy. Metals warehousing is notorious for embezzlement/fraud. My hypothesis is that everyone assumes it's too obvious to check or hard to steal.
- teraflop 3y ago
  Matt Levine had a pretty entertaining explanation of a different incident earlier this year, involving futures contracts: > JPMorgan, which does not make batteries or cars, bought bags of abstract nickel years ago. It took delivery of that nickel, not in the sense that a truck full of nickel showed up on Park Avenue but in the sense that an entry was made, on the ledger of the warehouse, saying that the bags of nickel in Row X, Shelf Y now belonged to JPMorgan. > JPMorgan then used that nickel for its intended purposes for years. Those purposes were to write financial contracts referencing that nickel. The nickel worked perfectly well for those purposes — JPMorgan’s derivative contracts traded and paid off normally — for years, even though the nickel was not in fact nickel, just bags of rocks. > And then one day a warehouse worker, like, stubbed his toe against JPMorgan’s nickel and was like “hmm that’s not the sound nickel makes when you kick it” and opened the bags and found rocks. And then the [London Metal Exchange] dutifully reported that some nickel was not nickel, and JPMorgan’s nickel warrants were transformed into rocks warrants. But it’s all just a random accident? The purpose of JPMorgan’s nickel was not to be turned into batteries or cars, but to sit in a warehouse. It was doing a great job of that, until someone noticed! https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-21/jpmorgan-had-some-fake-nickel https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-21/jpmorg...

ChuckMcM 3y ago

To be fair, it sounds like insider based "embezzlement" right? Someone signed off on the scrap metal samples and didn't bother to have any testing of future deliveries? Or perhaps had someone sign off on future deliveries without checking their base metal content? Either way, insiders exploiting weak internal controls to personally profit is certainly one of the more common "thefts" mode, whether its employees taking things home from the store or accounts writing checks to their cousins against fake invoices. I often wonder if there is a correlation between companies with higher pay inequity and this sort of theft. One leg of the fraud triangle is because the fraudster has a sense that they "deserve it" after all.

arendtio 3y ago

So a few month ago this story (German): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtxqMqCOus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtxqMqCOus And now they identified that the loss is actually about $200m?!? Sounds like they have a serious problem over there.

_trampeltier 3y ago
In Paderborn, some years ago, some guys did steal over 4500t steel from a steel tube company (Benteler). https://www.westfalen-blatt.de/owl/kreis-paderborn/paderborn/stahl-diebstahl-bei-benteler-wie-konnten-die-rohren-als-schrott-deklariert-werden-2695843 https://www.westfalen-blatt.de/owl/kreis-paderborn/paderborn...

Sebguer 3y ago

Amusing, vaguely similar story about a company that made loans based on collateral related to a ships that were to be broken up, that completely ignored the ship vanishing from tracking for years: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yieldstreet-under-examination-sec-fbi-loans-lost-vessels-alternative-investments-2020-8-1029497809 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/yieldstreet-...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

debo_ 3y ago

\m/