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Proof that we need more "family values"; more religious conservatism? This is what a lot of people seem to believe --- people who've never bothered to look at

Proof that we need more "family values"; more religious conservatism? This is what a lot of people seem to believe --- people who've never bothered to look at the actual evidence --- or who refuse to accept it once they see. A detailed county by county survey of the entire country shows that the most religious and conservative parts of the country have higher divorces rates by far. Getting married in the Bible Belt and giving money to the church seems to *create* a lot of one parent families. https://sites.utexas.edu/contemporaryfamilies/2014/01/16/impact-of-conservative-protestantism-on-regional-divorce-rates/ https://sites.utexas.edu/contemporaryfamilies/2014/01/16/imp...

em-bee 3y ago
we do need more family values, but religious conservatism is not that. we also need equality between women and men, and that is where conservatism gets in the way. i suspect that lack of equality is what's driving most divorces in those conservative areas because women no longer allow themselves to be treated as being lesser than men, so they stand up for themselves and the conservative men can't handle that.
- em-bee 3y ago
  it appears that some people disagree with my comment. but i do not understand why. am i misunderstanding what conservatism is? or do people disagree with the idea of equality between men and women? or with the idea that valuing family more would be better?
  - fisttrain 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - em-bee 3y ago
      ok, fair enough. would it help to elaborate on the points? let me try: by more family values i mean: value family more. that implies better financial support and less taxes for having children, parental leave, counseling and other measures that help parents stay together. but also raising the image of being a parent in society in general. religious conservatism refers to older family values where the woman submits to man among other things as is mentioned in other comments in this subthread. equality between men and women means equal value and station. a lot has improved in that area, but it's not quite there yet. we also need to learn to respect each other equally, especially in a relationship. equal value and station doesn't just mean equal rights or equal pay for the same work, but also equal importance of their contribution, their wishes and their needs, regardless of who is doing what in a family. the last claim that religions conservatism drives divorces, again is supported by other comments
      - fisttrain 3y ago
        i hate to be that guy but... source?
        em-bee 3y ago
        source for what specifically? more family support? compare the support for parents available in the US vs most other countries in the world, in particular the EU and read the comments here. equality between men and women? again, there is plenty of evidence worldwide that we have not achieved that. not by a long shot. the only thing that is not self-evident is the relationship between religious conservatism and divorce. that's one i am not sure about myself. but it is at least supported by a few others here. here is one study supporting that point: https://www.asanet.org/women-more-likely-men-initiate-divorces-not-non-marital-breakups/ https://www.asanet.org/women-more-likely-men-initiate-divorc... results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable. “I think that marriage as an institution has been a little bit slow to catch up with expectations for gender equality,”
        fisttrain 3y ago
        I am not arguing with you; I am simply pointing out the flaws in your previous argument.
        em-bee 3y ago
        I am not arguing with you reading emotions in text messages being difficult as it is, it would be helpful to point that out up front. it helps avoid a wrong reading. to me these points are more or less self evident, but it is fair to point out that not everyone may see it that way, so thanks for prompting me to elaborate.
        fisttrain 3y ago
        I appreciate your perspective, although I must express my continued disagreement. It is evident that I perceive a bias in the source material. (i love arguing)
  - em-bee 3y ago
    a response to this comment has been flagged, which hides further responses to that comment that you may want to read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37980225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37980225
theduder99 3y ago
that study's numbers make no sense. Looks like a hit job on southern conservatives. Try this: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statist...
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Your link states that evangelicals have the highest divorce rate out of any religion. Further, southern states do generally experience more divorce than areas like New England and CA.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    Growing up in a southern evangelical environment I can say anecdotally this is no surprise. When one side of a partnership considers themselves their peers better it leads to a path that ends in divorce.
bitsage 3y ago
The study shows even non-religious people in those same counties have high rates of divorce, so it’s clearly an issue affecting everyone. This is also pointless if they didn’t control for ethnicity. The South has a greater percentage of African-Americans who have higher rates of divorce. The problems beleaguering black communities has more to do with just living in religious or conservative counties

em-bee 3y ago

we do need more family values, but religious conservatism is not that. we also need equality between women and men, and that is where conservatism gets in the way. i suspect that lack of equality is what's driving most divorces in those conservative areas because women no longer allow themselves to be treated as being lesser than men, so they stand up for themselves and the conservative men can't handle that.

em-bee 3y ago
it appears that some people disagree with my comment. but i do not understand why. am i misunderstanding what conservatism is? or do people disagree with the idea of equality between men and women? or with the idea that valuing family more would be better?
- fisttrain 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - em-bee 3y ago
    ok, fair enough. would it help to elaborate on the points? let me try: by more family values i mean: value family more. that implies better financial support and less taxes for having children, parental leave, counseling and other measures that help parents stay together. but also raising the image of being a parent in society in general. religious conservatism refers to older family values where the woman submits to man among other things as is mentioned in other comments in this subthread. equality between men and women means equal value and station. a lot has improved in that area, but it's not quite there yet. we also need to learn to respect each other equally, especially in a relationship. equal value and station doesn't just mean equal rights or equal pay for the same work, but also equal importance of their contribution, their wishes and their needs, regardless of who is doing what in a family. the last claim that religions conservatism drives divorces, again is supported by other comments
    - fisttrain 3y ago
      i hate to be that guy but... source?
      - em-bee 3y ago
        source for what specifically? more family support? compare the support for parents available in the US vs most other countries in the world, in particular the EU and read the comments here. equality between men and women? again, there is plenty of evidence worldwide that we have not achieved that. not by a long shot. the only thing that is not self-evident is the relationship between religious conservatism and divorce. that's one i am not sure about myself. but it is at least supported by a few others here. here is one study supporting that point: https://www.asanet.org/women-more-likely-men-initiate-divorces-not-non-marital-breakups/ https://www.asanet.org/women-more-likely-men-initiate-divorc... results support the feminist assertion that some women experience heterosexual marriage as oppressive or uncomfortable. “I think that marriage as an institution has been a little bit slow to catch up with expectations for gender equality,”
        fisttrain 3y ago
        I am not arguing with you; I am simply pointing out the flaws in your previous argument.
        em-bee 3y ago
        I am not arguing with you reading emotions in text messages being difficult as it is, it would be helpful to point that out up front. it helps avoid a wrong reading. to me these points are more or less self evident, but it is fair to point out that not everyone may see it that way, so thanks for prompting me to elaborate.
        fisttrain 3y ago
        I appreciate your perspective, although I must express my continued disagreement. It is evident that I perceive a bias in the source material. (i love arguing)
- em-bee 3y ago
  a response to this comment has been flagged, which hides further responses to that comment that you may want to read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37980225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37980225

theduder99 3y ago

that study's numbers make no sense. Looks like a hit job on southern conservatives. Try this: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statistics/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/divorce/divorce-statist...

jncfhnb 3y ago
Your link states that evangelicals have the highest divorce rate out of any religion. Further, southern states do generally experience more divorce than areas like New England and CA.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Growing up in a southern evangelical environment I can say anecdotally this is no surprise. When one side of a partnership considers themselves their peers better it leads to a path that ends in divorce.

bitsage 3y ago

The study shows even non-religious people in those same counties have high rates of divorce, so it’s clearly an issue affecting everyone. This is also pointless if they didn’t control for ethnicity. The South has a greater percentage of African-Americans who have higher rates of divorce. The problems beleaguering black communities has more to do with just living in religious or conservative counties