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> Much more people would have been vegans or they would be much more indifferent to violence if every pack of meat had a QR code to a video showing the life and

> Much more people would have been vegans or they would be much more indifferent to violence if every pack of meat had a QR code to a video showing the life and processing of that particular animal. I think more people would be pushing for animal welfare and proper slaughtering/raising conditions if this was done, even if they still ate meat.

vladvasiliu 3y ago
Indeed. Over here in France, companies try to advertise that animals are well taken care off, raised outside, etc. I suppose they think it is relevant for enough people to spend money advertising it. And GP's example shows that seeing the animals being killed doesn't mean people will stop eating meat. "the more devout muslims practice ceremonial animal sacrifice which often happens on the streets with kids around, so they tend to have different relationship with the animal killing(no, they are cruelty or anything like that, it's just different)" In the same vein, my grandparents' village was still very rural when I spent my holidays there as a kid, and the other local children would grow up surrounded by cows, sheep, chickens, and other farm animals. They'd see them be slaughtered and cooked. I can't remember a single one of them turning vegetarian. And it should be noted that the adults wouldn't tolerate any kind of cruelty or abuse towards the animals. Hell, you could even get into trouble for being too loud at night next to a barn where cattle were sleeping.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  I agree, mostly. However the vegetarianism aspect is more nuanced IMHO. In my experience, seeing animal being killed is not enough, it needs to be combined with some kind of affection to the animal by giving it a personality. For example I feel uneasy since I watched cows showing curiosity towards objects and be playful like dogs. Also a friend of mine who used to live in a farm says that the cows can tell that they are going to be slaughtered and start acting differently. I’m not a vegan or vegetarian but I’m looking forward for lab produced meet where no cows are involved.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    I'm not convinced the personality thing is sufficient, or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Cows used to have names, like horses or dogs did. In contrast, house cats usually didn't. Plus, the children used to play with the goats and sheep while they were still small. I'm not very familiar with the cows (my grandparents didn't have any), but I know that goats also tend to be fairly smart, curious and quite playful. As a kid it's fairly easy to develop some attachment to them, especially since there isn't that big of a size difference (a cow can be intimidating to a child because of its size).
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      You are probably right, it's not that simple. Probably many things need to come together for a specific output but I still think that it affects how you think about it and maybe in some cases can make you a nihilist for example. Humans are complex.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      There's also different breed of cow, goat, and sheep used for meat vs wool. The meat breeds are much stupider and less personable. I could never kill one of my milk goats for meat, but my meat rabbits are a rather easy task.
plutokras 3y ago
> I think more people would be pushing for animal welfare and proper slaughtering/raising conditions if this was done, even if they still ate meat. Why does animal welfare matter if at the end they will end up as food anyway? Not trolling, I legitimately want to understand. From my point of view, livestock is just food, that happens to be in a temporary living state, before being ultimately eaten. As an end consumer, I don't see how this would change anything – besides potentially pushing up the price. I just want to pick up the meat at the store for the best possible price.
- yibg 3y ago
  Just because I’m set to be executed doesn’t mean I don’t care about being tortured before hand.
- raincole 3y ago
  Why does human welfare matter if at the end we all eventually die?
  - Aerbil313 3y ago
    It doesn't. Who said so? Your gut feelings? Human intuition? Nothing temporary ever matters. Human life can only matter if there's something permanent about it. If there isn't, nothing ever matters. None. Nil. Yes, I'm talking about religion. That pesky thing which folks on HN tend to look down in disgust. The idea of accountability with permanent, eternal consequences. Acts carrying on to another life which won't ever end. (Not talking about the dumb Christian idea "You are already forgiven no matter what because someone is killed 2 millenia ago!" here.)
    - hatefulmoron 3y ago
      > Nothing temporary ever matters. Human life can only matter if there's something permanent about it. If there isn't, nothing ever matters. None. Nil. Who said so? Your gut feelings?
    - tsimionescu 3y ago

vladvasiliu 3y ago

Indeed. Over here in France, companies try to advertise that animals are well taken care off, raised outside, etc. I suppose they think it is relevant for enough people to spend money advertising it. And GP's example shows that seeing the animals being killed doesn't mean people will stop eating meat. "the more devout muslims practice ceremonial animal sacrifice which often happens on the streets with kids around, so they tend to have different relationship with the animal killing(no, they are cruelty or anything like that, it's just different)" In the same vein, my grandparents' village was still very rural when I spent my holidays there as a kid, and the other local children would grow up surrounded by cows, sheep, chickens, and other farm animals. They'd see them be slaughtered and cooked. I can't remember a single one of them turning vegetarian. And it should be noted that the adults wouldn't tolerate any kind of cruelty or abuse towards the animals. Hell, you could even get into trouble for being too loud at night next to a barn where cattle were sleeping.

mrtksn 3y ago
I agree, mostly. However the vegetarianism aspect is more nuanced IMHO. In my experience, seeing animal being killed is not enough, it needs to be combined with some kind of affection to the animal by giving it a personality. For example I feel uneasy since I watched cows showing curiosity towards objects and be playful like dogs. Also a friend of mine who used to live in a farm says that the cows can tell that they are going to be slaughtered and start acting differently. I’m not a vegan or vegetarian but I’m looking forward for lab produced meet where no cows are involved.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  I'm not convinced the personality thing is sufficient, or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Cows used to have names, like horses or dogs did. In contrast, house cats usually didn't. Plus, the children used to play with the goats and sheep while they were still small. I'm not very familiar with the cows (my grandparents didn't have any), but I know that goats also tend to be fairly smart, curious and quite playful. As a kid it's fairly easy to develop some attachment to them, especially since there isn't that big of a size difference (a cow can be intimidating to a child because of its size).
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    You are probably right, it's not that simple. Probably many things need to come together for a specific output but I still think that it affects how you think about it and maybe in some cases can make you a nihilist for example. Humans are complex.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    There's also different breed of cow, goat, and sheep used for meat vs wool. The meat breeds are much stupider and less personable. I could never kill one of my milk goats for meat, but my meat rabbits are a rather easy task.

plutokras 3y ago

> I think more people would be pushing for animal welfare and proper slaughtering/raising conditions if this was done, even if they still ate meat. Why does animal welfare matter if at the end they will end up as food anyway? Not trolling, I legitimately want to understand. From my point of view, livestock is just food, that happens to be in a temporary living state, before being ultimately eaten. As an end consumer, I don't see how this would change anything – besides potentially pushing up the price. I just want to pick up the meat at the store for the best possible price.

yibg 3y ago
Just because I’m set to be executed doesn’t mean I don’t care about being tortured before hand.
raincole 3y ago
Why does human welfare matter if at the end we all eventually die?
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  It doesn't. Who said so? Your gut feelings? Human intuition? Nothing temporary ever matters. Human life can only matter if there's something permanent about it. If there isn't, nothing ever matters. None. Nil. Yes, I'm talking about religion. That pesky thing which folks on HN tend to look down in disgust. The idea of accountability with permanent, eternal consequences. Acts carrying on to another life which won't ever end. (Not talking about the dumb Christian idea "You are already forgiven no matter what because someone is killed 2 millenia ago!" here.)
  - hatefulmoron 3y ago
    > Nothing temporary ever matters. Human life can only matter if there's something permanent about it. If there isn't, nothing ever matters. None. Nil. Who said so? Your gut feelings?
  - tsimionescu 3y ago