5 ms·

I don’t see people becoming homeless because of medical bills in Canada. I don’t see people getting shot nearly as much in Canada. I don’t see as many exploit

I don’t see people becoming homeless because of medical bills in Canada. I don’t see people getting shot nearly as much in Canada. I don’t see as many exploited illegal immigrants in Canada. To fight corporate greed and capitalistic cynicism we do need government.

_v7gu 3y ago
I don't know why they are homeless, but there are quite a bit of homeless there; along with 15-people illegal boarding homes. Canadian real estate market is also quite a miracle. Compared to US, I suppose. Canadian homicide rate is comparable to Balkan countries, each famous in their own way of dysfunction and corruption. Drop the word "illegal" and you will see a lot. How do you expect illegal immigrants to get to Canada when they only border US? The final point is quite amusing since it's the Canadian Government and the regulatory capture it creates that screws up a lot of things in Canada and pushes prices to insane levels (mobile phone plans, housing as two examples that came to my mind) while also depressing wages via immigration.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  > Canadian homicide rate is comparable to Balkan countries At 2.1/100,000 it’s a hair above the 2021 Balkans average, which is, frankly, quite low and just a little higher than the Northern Europe average. > each famous in their own way of dysfunction and corruption. Yes, but not for high homicide rates. What’s the point you are trying to make?
  - _v7gu 3y ago
    If being Balkan-like is good enough, then yeah I understand why you wouldn't complain. After reading the other comments on this page it seems that "Well, it's good* enough." should be the national Canadian slogan or something. [*] For some low standard of good
    - Ygg2 3y ago
      GP suggests you ar cherry picking the data to make irrelevant data inferences. Here is a counter example. Cuba sees ~0 Rhinecarops homicide, ergo it's just as developed as Canada and Belgium.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > Drop the word "illegal" and you will see a lot. There are major differences between legal immigrants, who have to pass some pretty strict tests of suitability, and uncontrolled immigration. Legal immigrants have most of the rights and obligations of citizens, including access to healthcare and paying taxes. > How do you expect illegal immigrants to get to Canada when they only border US? Canada has thankfully developed enough by now to have airports. > I don't know why they [sic] are homeless You said it yourself: expensive real estate.
  - _v7gu 3y ago
    > Canada has thankfully developed enough by now to have airports. Truly spoken like someone who has no information about illegal immigration. I suppose the border control just lets everyone in? Or flights to Canada just let everyone board without checking their visas? Or Canadian embassies just throw around visas without checking for illegal immigration risk? For those who don't need visas, anyone interested in illegally immigrating from this list of countries (https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/entry-requirements-country.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...) are much better served by buying a bus ticket to Germany.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > Truly spoken like someone who has no information about illegal immigration Quote from this [0] article: "But in the past 10 years, visa overstays in the United States have outnumbered border crossings by a ratio of about 2 to 1, according to Robert Warren, who was for a decade the director of the statistics division at the agency that has since been renamed U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services". [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/real-immigration-crisis-people-overstaying-their-visas/587485/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/re...
      - _v7gu 3y ago
        US and Canada are two entirely different countries with entirely different approaches to immigration, and the numbers are wildly different: > There are no accurate figures representing the number or composition of undocumented immigrants residing in Canada. A guesstimate of about half a million has been proposed nationally [1, 2], but this number varies among other sources which suggest anywhere from 20,000 to 200,000 undocumented workers [3–5]. In 2003, Ontario’s Construction Secretariat purported that there were 76,000 non-status immigrants in Ontario’s construction industry alone, while other sources confirmed that at least 36,000 failed refugee applicants had never been deported, and another 64,000 individuals overstayed their work, student or visitor visas in 2002 [5]. If it is assumed that workers are accompanied by family, the numbers in Ontario would rise to the highest figure previously estimated for all of Canada. With respect to settlement, Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto have the highest number of undocumented migrants [6], with nearly 50% residing in Toronto alone [7]. The total number if illegal immigrants is probably around 10% of the yearly intake of legal immigrants. Whereas US keeps going for new records: https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensio...
- avtolik 3y ago
  The homicide rate in my poor corrupted Balkan country is 4 times lower than the US.
  - _v7gu 3y ago
    One of the few things we can take solace in as Balkanites: at least it's not as bad as it could be. Thank you US for showing that money does not necessarily fix all your problems.
wesapien 3y ago
Yea sure sure but it's significantly worse now that before. As more people become more desperate, they will turn to crime. Canada needs an embodiment of Theseus to defeat the Procrustes like progressives.
faeriechangling 3y ago
>I don’t see as many exploited illegal immigrants in Canada. There is not a large land border with Mexico in Canada, but Canadians are happy enough to exploit what they call temporary foreign workers who do jobs they don't want to do and have rights which fall short of a citizens on paper and in practice. This difference seems less due to Canada's superior nature than it seems due to Canada being surrounded by oceans on three sides and by a wealthier country on the fourth side. In fact I think Canadians would do well to keep in mind that they don't face the same issues that other countries do before passing judgement on immigration issues. Almost all immigrants to Canada are immigrants Canada explicitly welcomed to the country who met every qualification.
- michaelje 3y ago
  Wrt who is happy to exploit TFWs: is it Canadians, or the Canadian government at the request of Canadian big business? Who stands to gain? Without TFWs the minimum wage (or the amount actually paid for workers) would have to rise - supply and demand.
  - faeriechangling 3y ago
    Well in some cases the gain is mutual especially for things like seasonal agriculture work where demand for labour periodically peaks and the labour is utterly miserable. I've seen seasonal labour wages spike to twice the minimum wage, and still seen fruit rot on the field and people continue working their minimum wage jobs at Tim Hortons. This is an area where the poor of the nation arguably benefit from the underclass by driving down the cost of fresh produce and not having to do this back breaking labour. For other things, like the aforementioned jobs at Tim Hortons, hiring temporary foreign worker is nothing but a wage suppression scheme meant to solve the "problem" of Tim Horton's being unprofitable and locations shutting down in a low unemployment environment, and the whole "temporary" thing is something to be worked around. The previous government got in a world of shit for doing the latter and eventually stopped and banned much of the wage suppression aspect of this program. A few years back the incumbent government figured enough people aren't paying attention and re-legalised the fast food underclass again to suppress wages to address the "labour shortage" because fast food workers were faint making more than minimum wage and shudder taking a greater share of the profits of the fast food business.

_v7gu 3y ago

I don't know why they are homeless, but there are quite a bit of homeless there; along with 15-people illegal boarding homes. Canadian real estate market is also quite a miracle. Compared to US, I suppose. Canadian homicide rate is comparable to Balkan countries, each famous in their own way of dysfunction and corruption. Drop the word "illegal" and you will see a lot. How do you expect illegal immigrants to get to Canada when they only border US? The final point is quite amusing since it's the Canadian Government and the regulatory capture it creates that screws up a lot of things in Canada and pushes prices to insane levels (mobile phone plans, housing as two examples that came to my mind) while also depressing wages via immigration.

rrr_oh_man 3y ago
> Canadian homicide rate is comparable to Balkan countries At 2.1/100,000 it’s a hair above the 2021 Balkans average, which is, frankly, quite low and just a little higher than the Northern Europe average. > each famous in their own way of dysfunction and corruption. Yes, but not for high homicide rates. What’s the point you are trying to make?
- _v7gu 3y ago
  If being Balkan-like is good enough, then yeah I understand why you wouldn't complain. After reading the other comments on this page it seems that "Well, it's good* enough." should be the national Canadian slogan or something. [*] For some low standard of good
  - Ygg2 3y ago
    GP suggests you ar cherry picking the data to make irrelevant data inferences. Here is a counter example. Cuba sees ~0 Rhinecarops homicide, ergo it's just as developed as Canada and Belgium.
david-gpu 3y ago
> Drop the word "illegal" and you will see a lot. There are major differences between legal immigrants, who have to pass some pretty strict tests of suitability, and uncontrolled immigration. Legal immigrants have most of the rights and obligations of citizens, including access to healthcare and paying taxes. > How do you expect illegal immigrants to get to Canada when they only border US? Canada has thankfully developed enough by now to have airports. > I don't know why they [sic] are homeless You said it yourself: expensive real estate.
- _v7gu 3y ago
  > Canada has thankfully developed enough by now to have airports. Truly spoken like someone who has no information about illegal immigration. I suppose the border control just lets everyone in? Or flights to Canada just let everyone board without checking their visas? Or Canadian embassies just throw around visas without checking for illegal immigration risk? For those who don't need visas, anyone interested in illegally immigrating from this list of countries (https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/entry-requirements-country.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...) are much better served by buying a bus ticket to Germany.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > Truly spoken like someone who has no information about illegal immigration Quote from this [0] article: "But in the past 10 years, visa overstays in the United States have outnumbered border crossings by a ratio of about 2 to 1, according to Robert Warren, who was for a decade the director of the statistics division at the agency that has since been renamed U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services". [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/real-immigration-crisis-people-overstaying-their-visas/587485/ https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/re...
    - _v7gu 3y ago
      US and Canada are two entirely different countries with entirely different approaches to immigration, and the numbers are wildly different: > There are no accurate figures representing the number or composition of undocumented immigrants residing in Canada. A guesstimate of about half a million has been proposed nationally [1, 2], but this number varies among other sources which suggest anywhere from 20,000 to 200,000 undocumented workers [3–5]. In 2003, Ontario’s Construction Secretariat purported that there were 76,000 non-status immigrants in Ontario’s construction industry alone, while other sources confirmed that at least 36,000 failed refugee applicants had never been deported, and another 64,000 individuals overstayed their work, student or visitor visas in 2002 [5]. If it is assumed that workers are accompanied by family, the numbers in Ontario would rise to the highest figure previously estimated for all of Canada. With respect to settlement, Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto have the highest number of undocumented migrants [6], with nearly 50% residing in Toronto alone [7]. The total number if illegal immigrants is probably around 10% of the yearly intake of legal immigrants. Whereas US keeps going for new records: https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensio...
avtolik 3y ago
The homicide rate in my poor corrupted Balkan country is 4 times lower than the US.
- _v7gu 3y ago
  One of the few things we can take solace in as Balkanites: at least it's not as bad as it could be. Thank you US for showing that money does not necessarily fix all your problems.

wesapien 3y ago

Yea sure sure but it's significantly worse now that before. As more people become more desperate, they will turn to crime. Canada needs an embodiment of Theseus to defeat the Procrustes like progressives.

faeriechangling 3y ago

>I don’t see as many exploited illegal immigrants in Canada. There is not a large land border with Mexico in Canada, but Canadians are happy enough to exploit what they call temporary foreign workers who do jobs they don't want to do and have rights which fall short of a citizens on paper and in practice. This difference seems less due to Canada's superior nature than it seems due to Canada being surrounded by oceans on three sides and by a wealthier country on the fourth side. In fact I think Canadians would do well to keep in mind that they don't face the same issues that other countries do before passing judgement on immigration issues. Almost all immigrants to Canada are immigrants Canada explicitly welcomed to the country who met every qualification.

michaelje 3y ago
Wrt who is happy to exploit TFWs: is it Canadians, or the Canadian government at the request of Canadian big business? Who stands to gain? Without TFWs the minimum wage (or the amount actually paid for workers) would have to rise - supply and demand.
- faeriechangling 3y ago
  Well in some cases the gain is mutual especially for things like seasonal agriculture work where demand for labour periodically peaks and the labour is utterly miserable. I've seen seasonal labour wages spike to twice the minimum wage, and still seen fruit rot on the field and people continue working their minimum wage jobs at Tim Hortons. This is an area where the poor of the nation arguably benefit from the underclass by driving down the cost of fresh produce and not having to do this back breaking labour. For other things, like the aforementioned jobs at Tim Hortons, hiring temporary foreign worker is nothing but a wage suppression scheme meant to solve the "problem" of Tim Horton's being unprofitable and locations shutting down in a low unemployment environment, and the whole "temporary" thing is something to be worked around. The previous government got in a world of shit for doing the latter and eventually stopped and banned much of the wage suppression aspect of this program. A few years back the incumbent government figured enough people aren't paying attention and re-legalised the fast food underclass again to suppress wages to address the "labour shortage" because fast food workers were faint making more than minimum wage and shudder taking a greater share of the profits of the fast food business.