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I remember reading articles (15+ years ago) about how dangerous and impassable the Darien Gap was. Clearly that's not the case, or at least not anymore, conside

I remember reading articles (15+ years ago) about how dangerous and impassable the Darien Gap was. Clearly that's not the case, or at least not anymore, considering the number of migrants (including children) walking through every month. Perhaps they should develop some infrastructure, like roads or tunnels.

dendrite9 3y ago
It could be that it is just as dangerous as before but people are more desperate. I don't know either way but desperation was the first thing I thought while looking at the photos of detritus left by people trying to cross the Darien gap a while ago. If it is so dnagerous then I guess I hope some trail/route evolves into something more durable.
- rayiner 3y ago
  What would make people more desperate?
  - jinpa_zangpo 3y ago
    The average Venezuelan cannot survive on what they can earn because of poverty and inflation caused by the incompetent and corrupt socialist government of Venezuela.
  - dendrite9 3y ago
    I don't remember if this was the specific article, but this one about Afghan refugees was memorable. The people here are not why the routes exist but show some of what is involved. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/world/americas/darien-gap-afghan-migration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/world/americas/darien-gap...
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
15+ years ago the Darien really was more dangerous due to guerilla activity that, while still present, has abated. You might want to read Karl Bushby’s account of walking the Darien Gap around the turn of the millennium, and listen to interviews he has given on the subject. He had to coordinate his traversal with the Colombian military and, as a former soldier himself interested in intelligence matters, he got a good idea of just how much was going on in the jungle at that time. Not only the anti-government FARC but also right-wing militias that could be just as dicey.
samtho 3y ago
> I remember reading articles (15+ years ago) about how dangerous and impassable the Darien Gap was. Clearly that's not the case, or at least not anymore, considering the number of migrants (including children) walking through every month. This comment really belongs at the unfortunate juncture of privileged assumptions and geographical/geopolitical naivety. The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. All this shows is that the reward for crossing outweighs the risk of dying along the way - both of which are preferable to not attempting the cross (which is pretty bleak when you think about it). > Perhaps they should develop some infrastructure, like roads or tunnels. This is a very “thanks I’m cured” sort of statement that appears to be informed by nothing except your own lived experience in a place where terrain is mild and the political landscape is such that this is even possible. If you have not seen this sort of terrain for yourself, it’s hard to imagine it. Miles and miles of stinking swampland, ankle to waste deep in mud, bounded only by limestone cliffs with a shear drop to salty oceans below and plenty of rain to keep it muddy. Malaria is a literal plague and the mosquitos that carry it are not in short supply. Getting construction equipment there is difficult at best absolutely impossible otherwise. Tunnels would require multi-decade, multi-trillion dollar investments, boring through bedrock. Making coast-adjacent roads is difficult due to the isolation of the place and two closest cities you could link are on facing opposite oceans.
- deadbeeves 3y ago
  I think you're being unfair. >The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. All this shows is that the reward for crossing outweighs the risk of dying along the way - both of which are preferable to not attempting the cross (which is pretty bleak when you think about it). If people become more desperate they may attempt to do things that they believe are risky. It's perfectly possibly that they are more desperate and also that the trip is not as dangerous as they believed. It's true, the mere fact that, say, 1000 people successfully made the crossing doesn't tell you much by itself. How many attempted it? How many were in any way injured along the way?
- diebeforei485 3y ago
  > The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. It does. Most migrants use guides / "coyotes" to guide them through. Kinda like the sherpas of Everest. This wasn't so easy back in the day. Now it's pretty cheap - one guide for a group of 30-50.

dendrite9 3y ago

It could be that it is just as dangerous as before but people are more desperate. I don't know either way but desperation was the first thing I thought while looking at the photos of detritus left by people trying to cross the Darien gap a while ago. If it is so dnagerous then I guess I hope some trail/route evolves into something more durable.

rayiner 3y ago
What would make people more desperate?
- jinpa_zangpo 3y ago
  The average Venezuelan cannot survive on what they can earn because of poverty and inflation caused by the incompetent and corrupt socialist government of Venezuela.
- dendrite9 3y ago
  I don't remember if this was the specific article, but this one about Afghan refugees was memorable. The people here are not why the routes exist but show some of what is involved. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/world/americas/darien-gap-afghan-migration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/21/world/americas/darien-gap...

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

15+ years ago the Darien really was more dangerous due to guerilla activity that, while still present, has abated. You might want to read Karl Bushby’s account of walking the Darien Gap around the turn of the millennium, and listen to interviews he has given on the subject. He had to coordinate his traversal with the Colombian military and, as a former soldier himself interested in intelligence matters, he got a good idea of just how much was going on in the jungle at that time. Not only the anti-government FARC but also right-wing militias that could be just as dicey.

samtho 3y ago

> I remember reading articles (15+ years ago) about how dangerous and impassable the Darien Gap was. Clearly that's not the case, or at least not anymore, considering the number of migrants (including children) walking through every month. This comment really belongs at the unfortunate juncture of privileged assumptions and geographical/geopolitical naivety. The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. All this shows is that the reward for crossing outweighs the risk of dying along the way - both of which are preferable to not attempting the cross (which is pretty bleak when you think about it). > Perhaps they should develop some infrastructure, like roads or tunnels. This is a very “thanks I’m cured” sort of statement that appears to be informed by nothing except your own lived experience in a place where terrain is mild and the political landscape is such that this is even possible. If you have not seen this sort of terrain for yourself, it’s hard to imagine it. Miles and miles of stinking swampland, ankle to waste deep in mud, bounded only by limestone cliffs with a shear drop to salty oceans below and plenty of rain to keep it muddy. Malaria is a literal plague and the mosquitos that carry it are not in short supply. Getting construction equipment there is difficult at best absolutely impossible otherwise. Tunnels would require multi-decade, multi-trillion dollar investments, boring through bedrock. Making coast-adjacent roads is difficult due to the isolation of the place and two closest cities you could link are on facing opposite oceans.

deadbeeves 3y ago
I think you're being unfair. >The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. All this shows is that the reward for crossing outweighs the risk of dying along the way - both of which are preferable to not attempting the cross (which is pretty bleak when you think about it). If people become more desperate they may attempt to do things that they believe are risky. It's perfectly possibly that they are more desperate and also that the trip is not as dangerous as they believed. It's true, the mere fact that, say, 1000 people successfully made the crossing doesn't tell you much by itself. How many attempted it? How many were in any way injured along the way?
diebeforei485 3y ago
> The volume of people making the crossing doesn’t signal that it has somehow become less treacherous. It does. Most migrants use guides / "coyotes" to guide them through. Kinda like the sherpas of Everest. This wasn't so easy back in the day. Now it's pretty cheap - one guide for a group of 30-50.