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It's amazing how you went from 'there was no agricultural revolution in Australia' to 'Aboriginal Australians never figured how seeds work, or the link between

It's amazing how you went from 'there was no agricultural revolution in Australia' to 'Aboriginal Australians never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex'. I've witnessed firsthand from many – of course, not all – Australians that they are motivated to believe that indigenous Australians are mentally deficient as a way to paper over past atrocities and to justify the degradation and exclusion of them from society. You might want to give 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' a read, which provides a different and more compelling hypothesis to 'eurasian man smarter' for the beginning of the agricultural revolution.

jojobas 3y ago
I passed no judgement on Aboriginal intellectual ability, you're projecting.
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  What is different about Aboriginal Australians (in your mind) that caused you suggest they "never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex"? Do you think it took modern science for humans to make these simple deductions? Tell me your hypothesis.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Just wasn't their time. Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well, Australians were not that far behind. The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. They developed (or retained?) unique features too, such as being able to sleep in the open in sub-zero temperatures.
    - defrost 3y ago
      > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. You really do live in some far removed fantasy world don't you. I have rarely met any people that watch and know more about the plants and animals in their environment than australian aboriginals. They know what feeds on what, when different animals breed, when plants produce fruit, when they pollinate. You can't hunt kangaroo, for example, without knowing their movement patterns and it's a nice day out watching kangaroos lounge about feeding, mounting, and moving with the sun. There's entire long standing practices about not hunting where kangaroos breed, etc. to keep numbers up. The mindset that you've apparently missed is that of "keeping" domestic animals .. it was never a thing to people that were always surrounded by and living in the midst of animals they knew, watched, and knew where to find as needed. Elcho Islanders don't keep birds in a cage, for example - that's a European thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA
      - jojobas 3y ago
        Surely you'd know kangaroos are way more plentiful now that a lot of the forests have been cleared? They sure knew a lot of stuff, but these two they didn't. Being a hunter-gatherer meant breeding until you match the area's carrying capacity, i.e. adding any more people causes hungry deaths. Aboriginal Australians caused extinctions of quite a few species after their arrival as they were unconsciously searching for the equilibrium.
        h0l0cube 3y ago
        > Surely you'd know kangaroos are way more plentiful now that a lot of the forests have been cleared? The forests were cleared before Europeans arrived using bushfires > Aboriginal Australians caused extinctions of quite a few species after their arrival as they were unconsciously searching for the equilibrium. This isn’t particular to Australia. Every land where humans appeared, megafauna vanished because they were the easiest thing to hunt and didn’t breed quickly enough.
        jojobas 3y ago
        "Fire stick farming" didn't clear that much. The most fertile lands (i.e. south east) just converted to eucalyptus sclerophyll forests that are easier to hunt in. Either way my point about equilibrium (that means borderline hunger on average, hungry deaths every few years) stands.
    - h0l0cube 3y ago
      > Just wasn't their time So just happenstance? > Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well Say that were true, your amazement in your OP would be a little strange. > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have I'll point you back to the sibling comment as evidence to the contrary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37972080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37972080 Rituals around coming-of-age, first menstruation etc. also seem to oppose your claim. Plus also: common sense (have sex, pregnancy bump appears, baby comes out). The ability to deduce is common to all humans. If you think that indigenous Australians lack this faculty, that's kind of amazing.

jojobas 3y ago

I passed no judgement on Aboriginal intellectual ability, you're projecting.

h0l0cube 3y ago
What is different about Aboriginal Australians (in your mind) that caused you suggest they "never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex"? Do you think it took modern science for humans to make these simple deductions? Tell me your hypothesis.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Just wasn't their time. Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well, Australians were not that far behind. The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. They developed (or retained?) unique features too, such as being able to sleep in the open in sub-zero temperatures.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. You really do live in some far removed fantasy world don't you. I have rarely met any people that watch and know more about the plants and animals in their environment than australian aboriginals. They know what feeds on what, when different animals breed, when plants produce fruit, when they pollinate. You can't hunt kangaroo, for example, without knowing their movement patterns and it's a nice day out watching kangaroos lounge about feeding, mounting, and moving with the sun. There's entire long standing practices about not hunting where kangaroos breed, etc. to keep numbers up. The mindset that you've apparently missed is that of "keeping" domestic animals .. it was never a thing to people that were always surrounded by and living in the midst of animals they knew, watched, and knew where to find as needed. Elcho Islanders don't keep birds in a cage, for example - that's a European thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA
    - jojobas 3y ago
      Surely you'd know kangaroos are way more plentiful now that a lot of the forests have been cleared? They sure knew a lot of stuff, but these two they didn't. Being a hunter-gatherer meant breeding until you match the area's carrying capacity, i.e. adding any more people causes hungry deaths. Aboriginal Australians caused extinctions of quite a few species after their arrival as they were unconsciously searching for the equilibrium.
      - h0l0cube 3y ago
        > Surely you'd know kangaroos are way more plentiful now that a lot of the forests have been cleared? The forests were cleared before Europeans arrived using bushfires > Aboriginal Australians caused extinctions of quite a few species after their arrival as they were unconsciously searching for the equilibrium. This isn’t particular to Australia. Every land where humans appeared, megafauna vanished because they were the easiest thing to hunt and didn’t breed quickly enough.
        jojobas 3y ago
        "Fire stick farming" didn't clear that much. The most fertile lands (i.e. south east) just converted to eucalyptus sclerophyll forests that are easier to hunt in. Either way my point about equilibrium (that means borderline hunger on average, hungry deaths every few years) stands.
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    > Just wasn't their time So just happenstance? > Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well Say that were true, your amazement in your OP would be a little strange. > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have I'll point you back to the sibling comment as evidence to the contrary: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37972080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37972080 Rituals around coming-of-age, first menstruation etc. also seem to oppose your claim. Plus also: common sense (have sex, pregnancy bump appears, baby comes out). The ability to deduce is common to all humans. If you think that indigenous Australians lack this faculty, that's kind of amazing.