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The anti-mining rhetoric really needs to stop. Yes, 100 years ago miners took what they wanted and left a mess. Today, the process is much different. The mining
by 4RealFreedom 3y ago
The anti-mining rhetoric really needs to stop. Yes, 100 years ago miners took what they wanted and left a mess. Today, the process is much different. The mining companies rebuild everything and plant trees - you wouldn't even know there was a mine there. We need more mining in the US.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- justinator 3y ago"you wouldn't even know there was a mine there" https://maps.app.goo.gl/3U7pKb2oUPRnp4Qr5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/3U7pKb2oUPRnp4Qr5
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong but isn't that the Climax Mine from the late 1800s?
- earthscienceman 3y agoIt is the Climax mine. No it's not from the 1800s, and it's still in operation. It has absolutely demolished that section of the mountain range.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoThen reclamation hasn't started.
- justinator 3y agoYou're never going to reclaim it. The water that flows down from that pass will be poisoned by heavy metal indefinitely. There's a cost to mining, it's not cheap.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoI feel like you are moving goalposts here. I can only find information around old mines - all new/operational mines are subject to environmental oversight. Are you saying that operational mines are leaking heavy metal into drinking water?
- justinator 3y agoI am saying that for this mine to exist, you need now - and IN PERPETUITY - treat the water that flows down hill. To me, that is in no way shape or form: "reclaimed".
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoThat is not the definition of 'reclaimed' (I think you meant reclamation) - you are talking about environmental oversight. Do you think mines today are missing that in the US?
- justinator 3y ago>That is not the definition of 'reclaimed' (I think you meant reclamation) Reclamation is the noun form of the verb to reclaim. Do you think mines today are missing that in the US? I think the cost of mining is a long-tail problem. Just throwing some top soil over a mine isn't solving many of the problems a mine introduces. One of the examples I'm giving is heavy metal pollution of important-to-human water ways. In general, mines in the US have a very piss poor track record of dealing with long term environmental issues. I think one be a fool for believing the greenwashing marketing of a huge multi-national mining company, or their honest intent to put the land back in a state - or better - than what it was. That is a fantasy. As they reap enormous profits from the mining, I would want you think of who is actually bearing that cost.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoMining companies have to solve the problem of run-off as part of the Clean Water Act[1]. Reclamation is the process of 'fixing' the landscape. There are countless benefits from doing this including carbon storage[2]. "mines in the US have a very piss poor track record of dealing with long term environmental issues" - you are conflating old, abandoned mines with current mines. Current mining processes deal with everything you've listed. We need mining. We should be mining in the US for a variety of reasons. If that can be done responsibly, why wouldn't you want that? 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Water_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Water_Act 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_reclamation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_reclamation
- landemva 3y agoIf we don't want to import minerals from other countries (some hostile), then we will mine it here. Specifically for Climax Moly, their product contributed to WWII success.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoWhy'd you post a picture of a currently operating mine in response to the parent's point? Are there no examples of mines that have recently finished the reclamation stage with noticeable environmental impact remaining?
- justinator 3y agoI look forward to them telling me how they're going to rehab a mountain that doesn't exist anymore, or a pit that's several hundred feet deep.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoThere are plenty of resources available that show reclamation. Here's one - https://mineralseducationcoalition.org/mining-minerals-information/reclamation-stories/ https://mineralseducationcoalition.org/mining-minerals-infor...
- justinator 3y agoI'm sure the MEC is a totally independent non-profit fully divorced from the mining companies themselves and thus the information is to be 100% trusted.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- legulere 3y agoThe article states that there’s no environmental oversight during exploration because of that law.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- imgabe 3y ago"Exploration" is just walking around and taking samples. The article says at the point they want to actually open a mine they have to get environmental approval.
- patrickhogan1 3y agoThis article uses pre-regulation examples to make a point that does not apply to modern day mining operations. "Reclamation of mineral development was not a requirement under the Mining Law when enacted 150 years ago. Pursuant to FLPMA, the BLM issued regulations in 1981, which were amended in 2001 and require notices and plans of operation to include detailed reclamation plans. These regulations also require operators to provide financial guarantees covering the full cost to reclaim mining operations. Additionally, the BLM’s regulations allow the agency to require an operator to establish a trust fund or other funding mechanism to ensure the continuation of long-term treatment to achieve water quality standards and for other long-term, post mining reclamation and maintenance requirements after a mine is closed. These regulations provide the BLM with a mechanism to provide for protection of the environment after mining has concluded. In response to Government Accountability Office recommendations, BLM implemented a tracking system under which BLM certifies each fiscal year that the reclamation cost estimates for proposed and operating mines have been reviewed and are sufficient to cover the cost of reclamation. Currently, the BLM holds financial guarantees of $3.3 billion which is held to fund the costs of reclamation of mining operations on BLM-managed public lands. Furthermore, the BLM continuously reviews reclamation bonding requirements." https://www.blm.gov/congressional-testimony/reforming-mining-law-1872 https://www.blm.gov/congressional-testimony/reforming-mining...
- patrickhogan1 3y agoMining is an important industry. It has deeply shaped California, from the Gold Rush days in San Francisco to today's extraction of tech-essential minerals like lithium. While we can criticize parts of the industry, and lots of what happened in the past, we can't ignore its contributions to innovation and progress. While this article implies that mining under this law is the wild west, its much more complex. Transitioning from a claim to an actual mining operation (digging and extracting minerals) involves more oversight than the staking process (which is antiquated), including environmental reviews and other regulatory hurdles. A trust fund, containing billions of dollars paid for by these miners, is set up to support the cleanup of mining areas. The notion that today's mining operations can just neglect their obligations is mistaken. While reform is needed it's not accurate for this article to use pre-regulation abandoned mines as a benchmark for mines established post the 1981 regulations or the stricter 2001 standards set by the Bureau of Land Management.
- blackoil 3y agoRiches of America can be traced back to some Europeans getting lot of land by killing all the natives and then getting slaves as cheap labour.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zmgsabst 3y agoMining in the US West wasn’t done by slave labor. And conquest coupled with slaving their rivals is what powered most indigenous tribes, too! In fact, essentially every human society of the time or before. Weird that outrage is selectively applied.
- blackoil 3y agoI was replying to original comment claiming that people commenting out here are hypocritical because they all have benefitted from the mining. My comment implies that not all things that our ancestors do that have made our life what it is today are not ethical/legal today.
- MrRolleyes 3y agoI've got to call bullshit—I can't imagine a for-profit company doing anything out of the kindness of their heart. Planting a few trees for the sake of PR is not the same as responsible stewardship. Unless, of course, you have evidence you are able to furnish.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoIt's not out of the goodness of their hearts - it's law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_reclamation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_reclamation
- MrRolleyes 3y ago[dead]
- keepamovin 3y agoYou bring up a good point. While the intentions are companies are hard to gauge, and likely diverse across the set of all for-profit corporations, it's important to remember that without them we'd conceivably be living in a much less developed society with a much lower standard of living. Admittedly, our environment would be largely unspoiled if this were the case. This raises an interesting point about what people really want. Given the choice, would most people opt to live in an economically backward but pristine wilderness, or not? Such an environment might lack modern conveniences like electricity, sophisticated city services, piped water and sewerage, but may possess an abundance of natural riches, like fresh air, clean water, and a beautiful landscape that was unscarred and intact. I think many people would choose that life. I know I would, at least for a while. But many are also probably unfamiliar with the hardships of doing so, which may prove a decisive challenge for people and lead to them returning to more 'advanced' way of life. It could also be argued that the seeming dichotomy presented above represents an oversimplification of the reality, and that in general the choice would not be between such extremes. An optimistic take might also consider that ideally we don't need to choose, we can bring sustainable technologies with us to the wilderness, or we can make our existence in advanced cities environmentally friendly. It's important to remember that people often choose to migrate from less developed regions to more developed ones, primarily for the economic opportunities they believe are available to them and their loved ones there. It might be hard to argue that this is a bad thing, particularly as our concepts of ethics and morality are often based in notions of access to opportunity, sanitary conditions, and shelter. The interaction between humanity and the environment comprises complex dynamics involving seemingly competing considerations. It's crucial to consider the ethical intersection of good of the environment, and the good of the people. Economics and the environment interact in complex ways: we depend on the health of the environment for our economic growth, but often end up harming it in the process, endangering ecosystems and ourselves. Yet without that growth we would be without many things that people seem to prefer.
- genmud 3y agoHaving done executive level consulting for two of the biggest mining operations in the world, it's my anecdotal observations that the execs at those companies have some of the lowest/worst ethics I have ever seen in my 20+ years of work. To put it into context, I have worked with lawmakers / politicians, lobbyists, fortune 100 boards / exec teams and porn companies. By far the worst human beings I have ever encountered in my life (who weren't like, legitimately criminals, at trial) were the people in the mining industry.
- defrost 3y agoThe Vogons from Down Under have had their wikipedia profiles scrubbed back hard, there's barely a hint of just how truly despicable they are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Palmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Palmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Rinehart https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Rinehart Clive buying Adolf Hitler's Mercedes-Benz 770, and Gina's poetry might give the astute reader a hint.
- dclowd9901 3y agoUnmitigated bullshit in this comment. All current and past evidence of mining practices is a neon trail of hazard and destruction. It’s not even worth it to put up references because even a 5 second cursory fact check shows otherwise.
- 4RealFreedom 3y agoWhat part? It would be better if you listed specifics rather than generalizations. I'm open to debate anything I posted.