4 ms·

Hmmm... only read the abstract, but the idea that indigenous australians _in general_ were starving pre-colonisation is demonstrably false, just consider the ee

Hmmm... only read the abstract, but the idea that indigenous australians _in general_ were starving pre-colonisation is demonstrably false, just consider the eel farms and factories in Victoria

defrost 3y ago
I wonder if they read the paper either, it talks of many things, diet, work levels, nutritional levels, etc. It does include the extract: It is the accepted view that huntergatherers in general and Australian Aborigines in particular were neither undernourished nor overworked. But it is necessary to know more of the balance between work expenditure and nourishment, and the particular qualities of the diet that may have some bearing on fertility. (Robson, 1975:51)
jojobas 3y ago
How do you think living in balance with the environment looks? It's essentially food equilibrium, as everywhere else in nature. Dry year = death. Also they were eel traps, not farms or factories, were only available to a miniscule fraction of the tribes and they still were in equilibrium with eel supply. Agricultural Revolution is not called revolution for nothing, that's basically when human population started growing after millennia of stability caused by equilibrium with food supply (aka hunger).
- h0l0cube 3y ago
  It's amazing how you went from 'there was no agricultural revolution in Australia' to 'Aboriginal Australians never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex'. I've witnessed firsthand from many – of course, not all – Australians that they are motivated to believe that indigenous Australians are mentally deficient as a way to paper over past atrocities and to justify the degradation and exclusion of them from society. You might want to give 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' a read, which provides a different and more compelling hypothesis to 'eurasian man smarter' for the beginning of the agricultural revolution.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    I passed no judgement on Aboriginal intellectual ability, you're projecting.
    - h0l0cube 3y ago
      What is different about Aboriginal Australians (in your mind) that caused you suggest they "never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex"? Do you think it took modern science for humans to make these simple deductions? Tell me your hypothesis.
      - jojobas 3y ago
        Just wasn't their time. Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well, Australians were not that far behind. The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. They developed (or retained?) unique features too, such as being able to sleep in the open in sub-zero temperatures.
        defrost 3y ago
        > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. You really do live in some far removed fantasy world don't you. I have rarely met any people that watch and know more about the plants and animals in their environment than australian aboriginals. They know what feeds on what, when different animals breed, when plants produce fruit, when they pollinate. You can't hunt kangaroo, for example, without knowing their movement patterns and it's a nice day out watching kangaroos lounge about feeding, mounting, and moving with the sun. There's entire long standing practices about not hunting where kangaroos breed, etc. to keep numbers up. The mindset that you've apparently missed is that of "keeping" domestic animals .. it was never a thing to people that were always surrounded by and living in the midst of animals they knew, watched, and knew where to find as needed. Elcho Islanders don't keep birds in a cage, for example - that's a European thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA

Hmmm... only read the abstract, but the idea that indigenous australians _in general_ were starving pre-colonisation is demonstrably false, just consider the eel farms and factories in Victoria

defrost 3y ago

I wonder if they read the paper either, it talks of many things, diet, work levels, nutritional levels, etc. It does include the extract: It is the accepted view that huntergatherers in general and Australian Aborigines in particular were neither undernourished nor overworked. But it is necessary to know more of the balance between work expenditure and nourishment, and the particular qualities of the diet that may have some bearing on fertility. (Robson, 1975:51)

jojobas 3y ago

How do you think living in balance with the environment looks? It's essentially food equilibrium, as everywhere else in nature. Dry year = death. Also they were eel traps, not farms or factories, were only available to a miniscule fraction of the tribes and they still were in equilibrium with eel supply. Agricultural Revolution is not called revolution for nothing, that's basically when human population started growing after millennia of stability caused by equilibrium with food supply (aka hunger).

h0l0cube 3y ago
It's amazing how you went from 'there was no agricultural revolution in Australia' to 'Aboriginal Australians never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex'. I've witnessed firsthand from many – of course, not all – Australians that they are motivated to believe that indigenous Australians are mentally deficient as a way to paper over past atrocities and to justify the degradation and exclusion of them from society. You might want to give 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' a read, which provides a different and more compelling hypothesis to 'eurasian man smarter' for the beginning of the agricultural revolution.
- jojobas 3y ago
  I passed no judgement on Aboriginal intellectual ability, you're projecting.
  - h0l0cube 3y ago
    What is different about Aboriginal Australians (in your mind) that caused you suggest they "never figured how seeds work, or the link between pregnancy and sex"? Do you think it took modern science for humans to make these simple deductions? Tell me your hypothesis.
    - jojobas 3y ago
      Just wasn't their time. Modern humans spent about 200k years without figuring it out as well, Australians were not that far behind. The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. They developed (or retained?) unique features too, such as being able to sleep in the open in sub-zero temperatures.
      - defrost 3y ago
        > The sex-pregnancy link was figured out by observing domestic animals, a luxury they didn't have. You really do live in some far removed fantasy world don't you. I have rarely met any people that watch and know more about the plants and animals in their environment than australian aboriginals. They know what feeds on what, when different animals breed, when plants produce fruit, when they pollinate. You can't hunt kangaroo, for example, without knowing their movement patterns and it's a nice day out watching kangaroos lounge about feeding, mounting, and moving with the sun. There's entire long standing practices about not hunting where kangaroos breed, etc. to keep numbers up. The mindset that you've apparently missed is that of "keeping" domestic animals .. it was never a thing to people that were always surrounded by and living in the midst of animals they knew, watched, and knew where to find as needed. Elcho Islanders don't keep birds in a cage, for example - that's a European thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbSxc6Y1aVA