7 ms·

Well. I’ve had a lot of ideas in my adult life that I felt passionate about, but doing business here is remarkably unrewarding. I can do what I enjoy and I’m go

Well. I’ve had a lot of ideas in my adult life that I felt passionate about, but doing business here is remarkably unrewarding. I can do what I enjoy and I’m good at with an American company for 2-3x what I’d realistically earn here working at least as hard on my own business. I’ve consulted for several Canadian tech companies and their finances often seemed remarkably poor. I know some are doing well; I’m more so speaking about “regular people” businesses. Small private companies with staff around 10-20 people. They work really, really hard for their incomes and the rewards really aren’t what you’d expect. This seems true outside of tech as well. My wife works for the federal government on the other hand. She earns much less than I do, yet still dramatically higher than the average for our city and the rest of the country. She also has generous time off, training, an excellent union, interesting work, etc. Why in the world would she start a business? She actually could, too. She’s an awesome hydrographer with cutting-edge skills and knowledge. But she’d have to work herself to the bone if she went private and she’d have to work in wildly different and less comfortable contexts. And for what? 1.5x the income? 2x? After that’s chewed up by taxes, she has traded her family life for a career that barely pays more when you do the quantitative and qualitative maths. Yet I think this is a huge problem. It isn’t really wise to work hard and innovate here, and I think it’s actually harming our workforce and economy quite seriously. Look to many countries and you can quickly point at many past and recent innovations and core competencies. But what do you see when you look at Canada? There’s certainly less, and seemingly less all the time. Our small population is a huge disadvantage here, but we have such immense opportunity for innovation. I do think we innovate in extractive industries. We do a lot of environmental research around our primary industries, and that’s very valuable. Economically though, I don’t know… We aren’t much of a land of opportunity these days, and it doesn’t seem like much is happening to reverse this trend.

gumballindie 3y ago
This is true for tech work as well. Pay is higher in east european countries after a certain level of seniority. All in all Canada is noth worth it for the money. Everyone I know from the UK moving to Canada came back running as pay was easily higher. That means businesses can't afford people.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  That and those never ending winters.
  - dopidopHN 3y ago
    Yeah. But also those infinite boreal forest, 10 of thousand of pristine lake… There is something about it.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Agreed, nature is amazing there. I'd go out for solo hikes in the Sault-ste Marie, Wawa, Sudbury triangle and it was incredible.
      - dopidopHN 3y ago
        I found a little paradise on earth near Wawa, on Lake Superior. Well, found, no. There is also petroglyphs there. But damn, the lake has small island, coves, beaches. Absolutely stunning and mostly devoid of intense tourism. ( aka : no stress to find a camping spot, you can also sleep in most places if you are respectful)
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    Our winters here in Victoria are great. A decent amount of clear skies, never too cold, not as much rain as people think, heaps of stuff to do nearby or a day trip away. It’s hard to beat.
    - silisili 3y ago
      Victoria is also the most expensive city in Canada, which - reading the accounts of low pay in this thread, make it seem out of reach for most Canadians.
      - steve_adams_86 3y ago
jacquesm 3y ago
This isn't Canada per-se but more of a SV versus the rest of the world (with a few other small exceptional pockets).
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Thank you. Was about to say. It's a phenomenon of a few US coastal cities. And also very pronounced now, vs say 25 years ago.
- logicchains 3y ago
  Only if you consider "rest of the world" to mean Europe + English speaking countries. There's an insane amount of entrepreneurship coming out of China and India, and a similar hustle culture. Also in some parts of Africa, like Nigeria and Kenya.
WalterBright 3y ago
> After that’s chewed up by taxes Funny thing about high taxes being a disincentive.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Plenty of US states (e.g. California) end up with total taxation up in the same range as Canadian provinces, in the higher income brackets anyways. And Canadian corporate taxes are very low. US and Canada basically the same on this front. https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-among-low-corporate-tax-jurisdictions https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-... "While the lowest five corporate tax rates worldwide are held by corporate tax havens (led by Ireland), the United States and Canada have ranked ninth and tenth respectively out of 33 major economies for the past two years. The corporate tax rate in Canada is lower than all the averages of regional jurisdictions, including the global and G7, according to the average tax rates of 33 UHY international firms, assuming companies have a profit of $1 million. " Canada's problem is not excessive taxation. It's monopolies and lack of competition and over-reliance on commodity exports.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    Something is paying for Canada's massive public sector. What do you think it is? As for California, a lot of companies moved to Washington to escape the high taxes. Washington used to be a low tax state, but no longer, and companies aren't moving here anymore. (Washington recently added a capital gains tax, payroll taxes, a $.50 per gallon additional gas tax, and boosted the sales tax to 10.1%.)
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      Why don't you try using facts and numbers instead of insinuations, then? Show me how Canadians are being screwed on taxes. Actually I know working class Canadians are -- Canada's system is actually not very progressive compared to many US states, the bottom end of the tax bracket is fairly heavily weighted... but corporations here are sitting pretty. Best gig in Canada (after real estate) is to be a fake "contractor" paying corporate taxes instead of personal income taxes, and stashing your wealth in corporate assets and paying your spouse dividends... it's ridiculous. In any case, to throw it back: Something is paying for the US's massive defense sector. What do you think it is?

gumballindie 3y ago

This is true for tech work as well. Pay is higher in east european countries after a certain level of seniority. All in all Canada is noth worth it for the money. Everyone I know from the UK moving to Canada came back running as pay was easily higher. That means businesses can't afford people.

jacquesm 3y ago
That and those never ending winters.
- dopidopHN 3y ago
  Yeah. But also those infinite boreal forest, 10 of thousand of pristine lake… There is something about it.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Agreed, nature is amazing there. I'd go out for solo hikes in the Sault-ste Marie, Wawa, Sudbury triangle and it was incredible.
    - dopidopHN 3y ago
      I found a little paradise on earth near Wawa, on Lake Superior. Well, found, no. There is also petroglyphs there. But damn, the lake has small island, coves, beaches. Absolutely stunning and mostly devoid of intense tourism. ( aka : no stress to find a camping spot, you can also sleep in most places if you are respectful)
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  Our winters here in Victoria are great. A decent amount of clear skies, never too cold, not as much rain as people think, heaps of stuff to do nearby or a day trip away. It’s hard to beat.
  - silisili 3y ago
    Victoria is also the most expensive city in Canada, which - reading the accounts of low pay in this thread, make it seem out of reach for most Canadians.
    - steve_adams_86 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

This isn't Canada per-se but more of a SV versus the rest of the world (with a few other small exceptional pockets).

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Thank you. Was about to say. It's a phenomenon of a few US coastal cities. And also very pronounced now, vs say 25 years ago.
logicchains 3y ago
Only if you consider "rest of the world" to mean Europe + English speaking countries. There's an insane amount of entrepreneurship coming out of China and India, and a similar hustle culture. Also in some parts of Africa, like Nigeria and Kenya.

WalterBright 3y ago

> After that’s chewed up by taxes Funny thing about high taxes being a disincentive.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Plenty of US states (e.g. California) end up with total taxation up in the same range as Canadian provinces, in the higher income brackets anyways. And Canadian corporate taxes are very low. US and Canada basically the same on this front. https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-among-low-corporate-tax-jurisdictions https://www.canadian-accountant.com/content/taxation/canada-... "While the lowest five corporate tax rates worldwide are held by corporate tax havens (led by Ireland), the United States and Canada have ranked ninth and tenth respectively out of 33 major economies for the past two years. The corporate tax rate in Canada is lower than all the averages of regional jurisdictions, including the global and G7, according to the average tax rates of 33 UHY international firms, assuming companies have a profit of $1 million. " Canada's problem is not excessive taxation. It's monopolies and lack of competition and over-reliance on commodity exports.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  Something is paying for Canada's massive public sector. What do you think it is? As for California, a lot of companies moved to Washington to escape the high taxes. Washington used to be a low tax state, but no longer, and companies aren't moving here anymore. (Washington recently added a capital gains tax, payroll taxes, a $.50 per gallon additional gas tax, and boosted the sales tax to 10.1%.)
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    Why don't you try using facts and numbers instead of insinuations, then? Show me how Canadians are being screwed on taxes. Actually I know working class Canadians are -- Canada's system is actually not very progressive compared to many US states, the bottom end of the tax bracket is fairly heavily weighted... but corporations here are sitting pretty. Best gig in Canada (after real estate) is to be a fake "contractor" paying corporate taxes instead of personal income taxes, and stashing your wealth in corporate assets and paying your spouse dividends... it's ridiculous. In any case, to throw it back: Something is paying for the US's massive defense sector. What do you think it is?