5 ms·

My Facebook Account is Mine, not Yours

18 points by luciantodea 15y ago

stephengillie 15y ago
IANAL, but it sounds like Facebook's own TOS require them to close the account of users who have given away their password, whether to an employer, spouse, friend, or anyone else. Obviously Facebook would be killing its' advertising profits with that course of action, given the number of accounts that would purportedly need to be closed. Asking for access to a prospective employee's Facebook seems like asking for access to their car trunk or their home bathroom. Why don't companies try this? Is your Facebook account your personal property? What about your information after you've placed it on Facebook?
- rmc 15y ago
  Is your Facebook account your personal property? What about your information after you've placed it on Facebook? Depends. In the European Union, with data protection law, stuff you put on facebook would almost certainly be 'personal information' which cannot be used willy-nilly. ('information' is not usually viewed as 'personal property' in law)
- raganwald 15y ago
  Asking for access to a prospective employee's Facebook seems like asking for access to their car trunk or their home bathroom* A peripherally related topic, but how is asking for a drug test unlike asking for access to my home bathroom?
  - archivator 15y ago
    A drug test is a positive/negative thing where there are well-defined margins and error bars. The employer can say with reasonable certainty that X is a drug user and hence pass judgement on that. A Facebook login is NOT a positive/negative test - it's more of a "does this person behave well in general" which is a highly subjective measure. What's worse, it's conflating the private and work spheres and letting the employer pass judgement on X's personal life, regardless of how well X can compartmentalize. The key difference is that drug users usually can't compartmentalize their addiction. Most people can usually compartmentalize their social behaviour. "Usually" is the key word here - there are always extreme counter-examples.
dutchbrit 15y ago
Time to start denying you have a Facebook account all together, hook it up to a specially made email account for Facebook, don't add a profile picture & don't add friends from work to your network I guess.. Where's the world coming to?! I might be mistaken - but doesn't this break the United Nations Agreements on Human Rights?
StavrosK 15y ago
> The LAST time I checked, this was still America. As a foreigner, when I read this, I think "so why are you surprised?" Nationalism really irks me.
- talmand 15y ago
  I don't understand, are you saying he shouldn't be surprised such things happen in the US? If so, I would agree since things like that happen all the time. What's wrong with nationalism exactly? Since, like most things, there are various degrees of nationalism do you dislike every example of it? If I like the country I live in but disagree with some of its policies, am I still an irksome person in your eyes?
  - ekianjo 15y ago
    nationalism : (a definition I picked): "a sentiment based on common cultural characteristics that binds a population and often produces a policy of national independence or separatism." In other words, Nationalism is a big myth. There are no common characteristics (or then, VERY few) that everyone shares in one country, let alone in a single village. This is an idea created by politicians to turn one country's people against others. Liking the country you live in does not equal to nationalism, God forbid.
    - talmand 15y ago
      What was I downvoted for? I had a legitimate question. Anyway. I see what you're saying now and I would have to tend to agree if that is your definition.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    I'm saying that something like that is par for the course in the modern US, and nothing that would surprise me. My definition of nationalism is "excessive patriotism", or maybe "exceptionalism". It generally irks me when I hear americans say "this is America", because nobody I know says "this is Greece" or "this is England" as if they're the only free (to whatever degree) countries.
signalsignal 15y ago
No, your Facebook account belongs to Facebook. The content you post belongs to you with distribution rights granted to Facebook. Additionally free speech is protected from the government's interference, nothing is in the Constitution about protection from private enterprises.
- rmc 15y ago
  Depends. In some regions with data protection/personal data laws (e.g. the EU), there it is clear that some data is "personal data", and hence is, legally, treated differently. You cannot do whatever you want with personal data that people send to you (after you set up a website collecting it). It doesn't matter what distribution rights a company does, they are still bound by the law.
- readme 15y ago
  I came here just for this comment.
  - signalsignal 15y ago
    Thanks for the validation. I don't know if it is the blog-spam that infests all of these types of forums, or if it that people really think a for-profit corporation owes them free stuff in perpetuity. PR people, though, call me "cynical" ;)
Tichy 15y ago
Could employers ask me for my password by default? I mean would it be legal reason to fire me if I not give it to them? Coming from Germany, I am not sure, here apparently it is not so easy to fire somebody, but in the US it might be so easy that it doesn't matter. That is, they don't have to give a reason, which means not getting a password could be a reason? Otherwise I wonder if in the future it will be one more thing to watch out for in contracts. Another aspect: if an employer would be willing to fire you over such a thing, your profession is probably not in very high demand and you should consider switching.
CWuestefeld 15y ago
As far as I can see, this is just a lot of political posturing. Such a law would have little impact, because the feared scenario is already against the rule. It violates the Facebook T&C for both the account owner to share the password, and for the prospective employer to use it. And surely it's already illegal for an employer to require a candidate employee to violate such an agreement as a condition of employment. Just because something needs to be done does not mean that we need to have the government do it.
kstenerud 15y ago
"Don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to go on some freakin’ tirade here about first or fourth amendment rights. " ... "The LAST time I checked, this was still America. The last time I checked, I was afforded the right to speak my mind (First Amendment). The last time I checked, I was protected from unlawful search and seizure or demands on my privacy (Fourth Amendment)." Umm...
xiaomei 15y ago
Thoughts on this? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3797771 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3797771

18 points by luciantodea 15y ago

IANAL, but it sounds like Facebook's own TOS require them to close the account of users who have given away their password, whether to an employer, spouse, friend, or anyone else. Obviously Facebook would be killing its' advertising profits with that course of action, given the number of accounts that would purportedly need to be closed. Asking for access to a prospective employee's Facebook seems like asking for access to their car trunk or their home bathroom. Why don't companies try this? Is your Facebook account your personal property? What about your information after you've placed it on Facebook?

rmc 15y ago
Is your Facebook account your personal property? What about your information after you've placed it on Facebook? Depends. In the European Union, with data protection law, stuff you put on facebook would almost certainly be 'personal information' which cannot be used willy-nilly. ('information' is not usually viewed as 'personal property' in law)
raganwald 15y ago
Asking for access to a prospective employee's Facebook seems like asking for access to their car trunk or their home bathroom* A peripherally related topic, but how is asking for a drug test unlike asking for access to my home bathroom?
- archivator 15y ago
  A drug test is a positive/negative thing where there are well-defined margins and error bars. The employer can say with reasonable certainty that X is a drug user and hence pass judgement on that. A Facebook login is NOT a positive/negative test - it's more of a "does this person behave well in general" which is a highly subjective measure. What's worse, it's conflating the private and work spheres and letting the employer pass judgement on X's personal life, regardless of how well X can compartmentalize. The key difference is that drug users usually can't compartmentalize their addiction. Most people can usually compartmentalize their social behaviour. "Usually" is the key word here - there are always extreme counter-examples.

dutchbrit 15y ago

Time to start denying you have a Facebook account all together, hook it up to a specially made email account for Facebook, don't add a profile picture & don't add friends from work to your network I guess.. Where's the world coming to?! I might be mistaken - but doesn't this break the United Nations Agreements on Human Rights?

StavrosK 15y ago

> The LAST time I checked, this was still America. As a foreigner, when I read this, I think "so why are you surprised?" Nationalism really irks me.

talmand 15y ago
I don't understand, are you saying he shouldn't be surprised such things happen in the US? If so, I would agree since things like that happen all the time. What's wrong with nationalism exactly? Since, like most things, there are various degrees of nationalism do you dislike every example of it? If I like the country I live in but disagree with some of its policies, am I still an irksome person in your eyes?
- ekianjo 15y ago
  nationalism : (a definition I picked): "a sentiment based on common cultural characteristics that binds a population and often produces a policy of national independence or separatism." In other words, Nationalism is a big myth. There are no common characteristics (or then, VERY few) that everyone shares in one country, let alone in a single village. This is an idea created by politicians to turn one country's people against others. Liking the country you live in does not equal to nationalism, God forbid.
  - talmand 15y ago
    What was I downvoted for? I had a legitimate question. Anyway. I see what you're saying now and I would have to tend to agree if that is your definition.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  I'm saying that something like that is par for the course in the modern US, and nothing that would surprise me. My definition of nationalism is "excessive patriotism", or maybe "exceptionalism". It generally irks me when I hear americans say "this is America", because nobody I know says "this is Greece" or "this is England" as if they're the only free (to whatever degree) countries.

signalsignal 15y ago

No, your Facebook account belongs to Facebook. The content you post belongs to you with distribution rights granted to Facebook. Additionally free speech is protected from the government's interference, nothing is in the Constitution about protection from private enterprises.

rmc 15y ago
Depends. In some regions with data protection/personal data laws (e.g. the EU), there it is clear that some data is "personal data", and hence is, legally, treated differently. You cannot do whatever you want with personal data that people send to you (after you set up a website collecting it). It doesn't matter what distribution rights a company does, they are still bound by the law.
readme 15y ago
I came here just for this comment.
- signalsignal 15y ago
  Thanks for the validation. I don't know if it is the blog-spam that infests all of these types of forums, or if it that people really think a for-profit corporation owes them free stuff in perpetuity. PR people, though, call me "cynical" ;)

Tichy 15y ago

Could employers ask me for my password by default? I mean would it be legal reason to fire me if I not give it to them? Coming from Germany, I am not sure, here apparently it is not so easy to fire somebody, but in the US it might be so easy that it doesn't matter. That is, they don't have to give a reason, which means not getting a password could be a reason? Otherwise I wonder if in the future it will be one more thing to watch out for in contracts. Another aspect: if an employer would be willing to fire you over such a thing, your profession is probably not in very high demand and you should consider switching.

CWuestefeld 15y ago

As far as I can see, this is just a lot of political posturing. Such a law would have little impact, because the feared scenario is already against the rule. It violates the Facebook T&C for both the account owner to share the password, and for the prospective employer to use it. And surely it's already illegal for an employer to require a candidate employee to violate such an agreement as a condition of employment. Just because something needs to be done does not mean that we need to have the government do it.

kstenerud 15y ago

"Don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to go on some freakin’ tirade here about first or fourth amendment rights. " ... "The LAST time I checked, this was still America. The last time I checked, I was afforded the right to speak my mind (First Amendment). The last time I checked, I was protected from unlawful search and seizure or demands on my privacy (Fourth Amendment)." Umm...

xiaomei 15y ago

Thoughts on this? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3797771 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3797771