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To get very hippy about it. If you've ever been around an old growth tree, let alone entire forest, or something mega like a redwood, it makes sense that they

To get very hippy about it. If you've ever been around an old growth tree, let alone entire forest, or something mega like a redwood, it makes sense that they can (a) communicate and (b) feel. There's just something so, I don't know, intense about a living organism that big. It just seems like the feelings would be glacially slow. Also, if you've never read The Overstory, do yourself a favor. Also listen to Richard on npr. He lays out the argument of trees as thinking, feeling, and caring entities. It's really strong.

cocoacat 3y ago
A book from an environmentalist author that explores similar themes is "Finding the Mother Tree" by Suzanne Simard. I think about the interconnectedness of plants frequently when I walk in the woods now.
TheAceOfHearts 3y ago
Going in a different direction, if you're interested in a fantasy book that explores the concept of life as a tree then check out Tree of Aeons by Spaizzzer. It's an isekai where a guy is reincarnated as a magical tree. Admittedly, the book series dropped off a bit for my taste after the first book, but it was still a creative take on the genre.
smohare 3y ago
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chrisweekly 3y ago
Overstory: A Novel, by Richard Powers, richly deserved its Pulitzer. Highest possible recommendation, for anyone remotely interested in trees or storytelling or literature.
pfannkuchen 3y ago
There is some form of communication between different parts of the plant, sure, but why would we call it “feelings”? Feelings in humans require a conscious agent layer to “feel” the feelings. If we ignore that part, what stops us from saying that computers have feelings?
- appplication 3y ago
  Without touching on the computer bit, feelings certainly have little to do with consciousness. A dog feels feelings. Happiness, fear, etc. We know a simpler organism like a beetle has some sense of “feeling”. They respond to their environment and move to safety, resources, etc. Go even simpler and you’re at unicellular organisms, which similarly respond to positive and negative input. Plants also do the same. Ultimately what is a feeling but a response to environmental stimuli? Why is consciousness necessary in the equation?
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Well I believe the term "feelings" originated with reference to humans, and that is how we conceptualize the term. How humans "feel" does require a conscious agent layer, since that is what is doing the "feeling". What is being "felt" is the chemical signals that are part of an organism's low level behavior control system. Other animals do have the chemical signaling part since they have a similar low level behavior control system. But the chemical signals part is not what constitutes "feelings" in humans, so IMO animals do not have "feelings" per se unless they have a conscious agent to experience the "feelings". It is possible that some other animals do have a conscious agent layer, and those animals could be said to "have feelings", but at present we do not know which animals possess this layer, if any. I think if we say that dogs "have feelings" then we are giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding whether they possess such a layer, in the absence of concrete knowledge on our part. I find it extremely unlikely that plants have a conscious agent layer, because the purpose of this layer is behavior computation, and plants do not have behavior because they lack moving parts.

cocoacat 3y ago

A book from an environmentalist author that explores similar themes is "Finding the Mother Tree" by Suzanne Simard. I think about the interconnectedness of plants frequently when I walk in the woods now.

TheAceOfHearts 3y ago

Going in a different direction, if you're interested in a fantasy book that explores the concept of life as a tree then check out Tree of Aeons by Spaizzzer. It's an isekai where a guy is reincarnated as a magical tree. Admittedly, the book series dropped off a bit for my taste after the first book, but it was still a creative take on the genre.

smohare 3y ago

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chrisweekly 3y ago

Overstory: A Novel, by Richard Powers, richly deserved its Pulitzer. Highest possible recommendation, for anyone remotely interested in trees or storytelling or literature.

pfannkuchen 3y ago

There is some form of communication between different parts of the plant, sure, but why would we call it “feelings”? Feelings in humans require a conscious agent layer to “feel” the feelings. If we ignore that part, what stops us from saying that computers have feelings?

appplication 3y ago
Without touching on the computer bit, feelings certainly have little to do with consciousness. A dog feels feelings. Happiness, fear, etc. We know a simpler organism like a beetle has some sense of “feeling”. They respond to their environment and move to safety, resources, etc. Go even simpler and you’re at unicellular organisms, which similarly respond to positive and negative input. Plants also do the same. Ultimately what is a feeling but a response to environmental stimuli? Why is consciousness necessary in the equation?
- pfannkuchen 3y ago
  Well I believe the term "feelings" originated with reference to humans, and that is how we conceptualize the term. How humans "feel" does require a conscious agent layer, since that is what is doing the "feeling". What is being "felt" is the chemical signals that are part of an organism's low level behavior control system. Other animals do have the chemical signaling part since they have a similar low level behavior control system. But the chemical signals part is not what constitutes "feelings" in humans, so IMO animals do not have "feelings" per se unless they have a conscious agent to experience the "feelings". It is possible that some other animals do have a conscious agent layer, and those animals could be said to "have feelings", but at present we do not know which animals possess this layer, if any. I think if we say that dogs "have feelings" then we are giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding whether they possess such a layer, in the absence of concrete knowledge on our part. I find it extremely unlikely that plants have a conscious agent layer, because the purpose of this layer is behavior computation, and plants do not have behavior because they lack moving parts.