4 ms·

I don’t think it’s ethical to breed, farm, and kill sentient beings just because you don’t abuse them before you bolt them in the head. “But my slaves have a g

I don’t think it’s ethical to breed, farm, and kill sentient beings just because you don’t abuse them before you bolt them in the head. “But my slaves have a great life!” would be a similar example.

genewitch 3y ago
fair enough. I've only done vegetarianism and veganism for (selfish) health reasons. I can't seem to get things to grow in the ground here, probably because of all the pine stands and i can't get the ratio of lye correct to promote stuff like corn or oats to grow. Luckily trees grow fine... the rabbits, squirrels, and birds thank me every year when they get to the fruit before i can. It's also rural here, so being vegan is incredibly difficult (read: boring). I could, technically, survive on oatmeal, french/italian bread, potatos, and ketchup. But i don't have the moral fortitude to make the leap. maybe in the future. Thanks for responding and I hope my question was worded inoffensively. I hate to sound like i am JAQ-ing off.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Where do you get your food? The market doesn't have vegetables, legumes, grains, nuts, etc.?
  - genewitch 3y ago
    "the market" that sells those things is over an hour round trip, so i only go every three weeks or so. There is a distinct (but unchecked) possibility that the solitary butcher shop is closer than a supermarket to my house. I just realized i have this style conversation every time i bring up anything about food when talking with people specifically in the US, for 15 of the last 20 years of my life. The comment i originally typed mentioned a 50 mile radius around my house is either forest or farmland, with 1 metro area. AFAIK there's no farmer's market; also the most common crops are field corn (not human edible as i understand it) and cotton, then soybeans. It is very difficult to enjoy eating if there's any dietary restrictions, self-imposed or otherwise, due to living it what i suppose most people would call a food desert. Atkins, vegetarianism, veganism, etc. I can buy hamburger patties, chicken, bacon, cheese about 15 minutes from my house, though - and an extremely limited selection of seasonal produce, grapes, avocado, banana, apples, iceberg lettuce, sometimes cucumbers and celery and carrots. Everything else would be canned, and i'm on an eternally medically necessary low-sodium diet, so i don't eat much canned vegetables. Food here is such a pain in the ass that sometimes i buy my friends fresh produce when i go to town so they have something to eat that isn't fried.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > field corn (not human edible as i understand it) Heh, fermentation may open up some options there. :D
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      I realize my questions might have seemed argumentative. I was really curious. Thanks for explaining it (again!). We all live on the same planet, in different worlds.
- odrekf 3y ago
  Have you tried Landrace gardening? Maybe you just need to adapt the seeds to your local conditions.
  - genewitch 3y ago
    Only STUN - Sheer Total Utter Neglect (Mark Shepard); although i will try to ask the agricultural department at the local state university if they know of any. There is an experimental USDA forest about 20 minutes from my house (which contains a redwood which grew from a seed that went to space!), so someone out here is as interested as i am in growing things in this forest without pesticide application.
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  Try raised beds and purchase soil for them at a garden store. Then you control the mix.
tremon 3y ago
On the other hand, cattle and poultry are the most successful organisms on this planet exactly because of farming. The selective pressure for tasty meat is no different than flowers developing rich smells and trees developing edible fruits. There is a lot to be said against the inhuman assembly-line-like production of meat that has developed over the last century. But in my view, I shouldn't have to defend myself for being born an omnivore.
- zztop44 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ta8645 3y ago
    Here's my ethical defense of eating meat. Everyone and every thing dies, and in the larger scheme of things it matters not one bit. I'll make peace agreements with others where I see a benefit, and if I can trust that the other sees enough benefit to hold up his end of the bargain. Other than that, I see no reason to not participate fully in the full range of barbaric behavior the universe allows. Don't blame the player, blame the game. There is no referee who watches over to pass judgement either way.
    - zztop44 3y ago
      “I will do barbaric things so long as there are no adverse consequences to me personally” is not really an ethical defence of eating meat.
      - ta8645 3y ago
        Well, ignoring your minor mischaracterization of my position, yes it is a defense of meat eating. It's just not ethics you agree with. But that's the great thing with ethics, everyone gets to pick their own. There's no right or wrong, just opinions.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

genewitch 3y ago

fair enough. I've only done vegetarianism and veganism for (selfish) health reasons. I can't seem to get things to grow in the ground here, probably because of all the pine stands and i can't get the ratio of lye correct to promote stuff like corn or oats to grow. Luckily trees grow fine... the rabbits, squirrels, and birds thank me every year when they get to the fruit before i can. It's also rural here, so being vegan is incredibly difficult (read: boring). I could, technically, survive on oatmeal, french/italian bread, potatos, and ketchup. But i don't have the moral fortitude to make the leap. maybe in the future. Thanks for responding and I hope my question was worded inoffensively. I hate to sound like i am JAQ-ing off.

wolverine876 3y ago
Where do you get your food? The market doesn't have vegetables, legumes, grains, nuts, etc.?
- genewitch 3y ago
  "the market" that sells those things is over an hour round trip, so i only go every three weeks or so. There is a distinct (but unchecked) possibility that the solitary butcher shop is closer than a supermarket to my house. I just realized i have this style conversation every time i bring up anything about food when talking with people specifically in the US, for 15 of the last 20 years of my life. The comment i originally typed mentioned a 50 mile radius around my house is either forest or farmland, with 1 metro area. AFAIK there's no farmer's market; also the most common crops are field corn (not human edible as i understand it) and cotton, then soybeans. It is very difficult to enjoy eating if there's any dietary restrictions, self-imposed or otherwise, due to living it what i suppose most people would call a food desert. Atkins, vegetarianism, veganism, etc. I can buy hamburger patties, chicken, bacon, cheese about 15 minutes from my house, though - and an extremely limited selection of seasonal produce, grapes, avocado, banana, apples, iceberg lettuce, sometimes cucumbers and celery and carrots. Everything else would be canned, and i'm on an eternally medically necessary low-sodium diet, so i don't eat much canned vegetables. Food here is such a pain in the ass that sometimes i buy my friends fresh produce when i go to town so they have something to eat that isn't fried.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    > field corn (not human edible as i understand it) Heh, fermentation may open up some options there. :D
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    I realize my questions might have seemed argumentative. I was really curious. Thanks for explaining it (again!). We all live on the same planet, in different worlds.
odrekf 3y ago
Have you tried Landrace gardening? Maybe you just need to adapt the seeds to your local conditions.
- genewitch 3y ago
  Only STUN - Sheer Total Utter Neglect (Mark Shepard); although i will try to ask the agricultural department at the local state university if they know of any. There is an experimental USDA forest about 20 minutes from my house (which contains a redwood which grew from a seed that went to space!), so someone out here is as interested as i am in growing things in this forest without pesticide application.
operatingthetan 3y ago
Try raised beds and purchase soil for them at a garden store. Then you control the mix.

tremon 3y ago

On the other hand, cattle and poultry are the most successful organisms on this planet exactly because of farming. The selective pressure for tasty meat is no different than flowers developing rich smells and trees developing edible fruits. There is a lot to be said against the inhuman assembly-line-like production of meat that has developed over the last century. But in my view, I shouldn't have to defend myself for being born an omnivore.

zztop44 3y ago
[flagged]
- ta8645 3y ago
  Here's my ethical defense of eating meat. Everyone and every thing dies, and in the larger scheme of things it matters not one bit. I'll make peace agreements with others where I see a benefit, and if I can trust that the other sees enough benefit to hold up his end of the bargain. Other than that, I see no reason to not participate fully in the full range of barbaric behavior the universe allows. Don't blame the player, blame the game. There is no referee who watches over to pass judgement either way.
  - zztop44 3y ago
    “I will do barbaric things so long as there are no adverse consequences to me personally” is not really an ethical defence of eating meat.
    - ta8645 3y ago
      Well, ignoring your minor mischaracterization of my position, yes it is a defense of meat eating. It's just not ethics you agree with. But that's the great thing with ethics, everyone gets to pick their own. There's no right or wrong, just opinions.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]