3 ms·

But it does exist. Should nothing be done about climate change because we wish it wasn't happening?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
If we end unnecessary corn and ethanol subsidies, ethanol production sunsets. The ethanol industry continues to fight for more ethanol subsidies in the face of future volume declines as EV sales ramp. We harvest 40 million acres in the US for ethanol, as a data point. 40 million acres! Think of the downstream impacts of harvesting all of that land (farm implement emissions, petrol based fertilizer production and application, etc) for corn based ethanol that we're then going to try to bolt CO2 pipelines and capture on to. Lean into EVs and renewables (including PV agrivoltaics when applicable). Lets leave this dumpster fire of ag energy policy handout to farmers behind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37956610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37956610 (citations) https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-3321701 https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-... ("Understanding the Ethanol Subsidy") https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=US https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=US ("Federal Ethanol Laws and Incentives") https://www.taxpayer.net/energy-natural-resources/understanding-u-s-corn-ethanol-and-other-corn-based-biofuels-subsidies/ https://www.taxpayer.net/energy-natural-resources/understand... ("Understanding U.S. Corn Ethanol and Other Corn-Based Biofuels Subsidies: Taxpayers have subsidized the mature corn ethanol industry for more than 40 years") https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800922001987 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09218... ("Light-duty vehicle fleet electrification in the United States and its effects on global agricultural markets") https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-e... ("U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds")
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  But it does exist, and it won’t end for as long as corn is farmed and farm states have senators. Given this reality, the other option is doing absolutely nothing and being angry that the world is emergently the way it is. While it doesn’t have to be this way it is this way, and the engineering solution is actually achievable while the political solution is intractable.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Agree to disagree I suppose, moot with the project dead. Onward.
veqq 3y ago
Ethanol is not doing something about climate change. Corn ethanol is not energy positive. It's straight green washing, with more energy (oil and other hydrocarbon derived products) in than out. Sugar ethanol (widespread in Brazil) is energy positive at least, but not by much.

If we end unnecessary corn and ethanol subsidies, ethanol production sunsets. The ethanol industry continues to fight for more ethanol subsidies in the face of future volume declines as EV sales ramp. We harvest 40 million acres in the US for ethanol, as a data point. 40 million acres! Think of the downstream impacts of harvesting all of that land (farm implement emissions, petrol based fertilizer production and application, etc) for corn based ethanol that we're then going to try to bolt CO2 pipelines and capture on to. Lean into EVs and renewables (including PV agrivoltaics when applicable). Lets leave this dumpster fire of ag energy policy handout to farmers behind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37956610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37956610 (citations) https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-3321701 https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-... ("Understanding the Ethanol Subsidy") https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=US https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/laws/ETH?state=US ("Federal Ethanol Laws and Incentives") https://www.taxpayer.net/energy-natural-resources/understanding-u-s-corn-ethanol-and-other-corn-based-biofuels-subsidies/ https://www.taxpayer.net/energy-natural-resources/understand... ("Understanding U.S. Corn Ethanol and Other Corn-Based Biofuels Subsidies: Taxpayers have subsidized the mature corn ethanol industry for more than 40 years") https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0921800922001987 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09218... ("Light-duty vehicle fleet electrification in the United States and its effects on global agricultural markets") https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-e... ("U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds")

fnordpiglet 3y ago
But it does exist, and it won’t end for as long as corn is farmed and farm states have senators. Given this reality, the other option is doing absolutely nothing and being angry that the world is emergently the way it is. While it doesn’t have to be this way it is this way, and the engineering solution is actually achievable while the political solution is intractable.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Agree to disagree I suppose, moot with the project dead. Onward.

veqq 3y ago

Ethanol is not doing something about climate change. Corn ethanol is not energy positive. It's straight green washing, with more energy (oil and other hydrocarbon derived products) in than out. Sugar ethanol (widespread in Brazil) is energy positive at least, but not by much.