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In other words, cargo cult programming. I wrote about this two years ago [1] and received only polarised responses that either agreed with the point wholehearte

by hliyan 3y ago

In other words, cargo cult programming. I wrote about this two years ago [1] and received only polarised responses that either agreed with the point wholeheartedly, or attacked me viciously for gatekeeping. I wish there was a better way to cure this disease without triggering the professional immune systems of engineers who are highly vested in their favourite technologies. [1] https://medium.com/the-engineering-manager-guide/cargo-cult-programming-is-killing-the-sri-lankan-software-industry-e5e9fc9a3ff9?sk=02370473978b3641b887ff74006c529c https://medium.com/the-engineering-manager-guide/cargo-cult-...

johnklos 3y ago
You asked good questions in that article. It's unfortunate, and I can't help but wonder if we've lost something essential because of how uncommon it is for people to be proud of their abilities, proud of their work, proud of their accomplishments. In a nutshell, I think people who truly enjoy the satisfaction of doing a thing well are spending more time, generally, trying to truly understand things than those who just want to do their job and be done with it. But what does that curiosity get us? I can't help but think of this fortune(6), and wonder how many non-curious people would even get it: A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly: "You can not fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off and on. The machine worked.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  > It's unfortunate, and I can't help but wonder if we've lost something essential because of how uncommon it is for people to be proud of their abilities, proud of their work, proud of their accomplishments. Is it? this forum is full of it in the form of blog posts and replies. And it is one of the things that makes it great. By the other hand, social media is also full of people boasting about their accomplishments but more often than not is just marketing.
bluecheese452 3y ago
I read your blog post in order to understand why you might be getting negative reactions. You are coming across off as combative and arrogant. It feels like you are quizzing people on details in order to show you know more than them.
- HumanOstrich 3y ago
  I disagree. The questions are posed as challenges but are not charged, subjective, or overly pedantic. I also don't see where he's trying to show he knows more than they do in a self-serving way. Some people choose to interpret any challenge as a personal attack. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
bluecheese452 3y ago
To me it was putting “react expert” , “node expert” whatever else expert in quotes that gave it away. It was pretty clear to me that he viewed his role as exposing them as not real experts. And 2 of the people did not understand his questions and he never even tried to clarify or consider that the problem was with his question. “I asked a “React.js expert” to compare different SPA approaches such as direct DOM manipulation, MVC driven client side templating, component-based DOM manipulation and compile-to-vanilla-JS“ I honestly don’t understand what he is asking either. What is compile to vanilla js? Is he talking about compiling typescript to js? And what does that have to do with the dom? Also what is “MVC driven component based dom manipulation”? Like I feel like I am dealing with someone who read some design patterns book and dings anyone who doesn’t use the exact same terms he does. Not someone who has a superior understanding of development.
patrick451 3y ago
This idea of gatekeeping is so cancerous. Nearly every time I see that accusation deployed, there is an implicit assumption that gatekeeping is obviously bad. It's just used as a trump, "you are gatekeeping, so I win". I think this is a ridiculous idea. There's nothing wrong with advocating for a high bar of professionalism, which is essentially what gatekeeping is. I'm very glad that medicine is a gatekept profession when I visit my doctor.

by hliyan 3y ago

johnklos 3y ago

You asked good questions in that article. It's unfortunate, and I can't help but wonder if we've lost something essential because of how uncommon it is for people to be proud of their abilities, proud of their work, proud of their accomplishments. In a nutshell, I think people who truly enjoy the satisfaction of doing a thing well are spending more time, generally, trying to truly understand things than those who just want to do their job and be done with it. But what does that curiosity get us? I can't help but think of this fortune(6), and wonder how many non-curious people would even get it: A novice was trying to fix a broken Lisp machine by turning the power off and on. Knight, seeing what the student was doing spoke sternly: "You can not fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong." Knight turned the machine off and on. The machine worked.

meiraleal 3y ago
> It's unfortunate, and I can't help but wonder if we've lost something essential because of how uncommon it is for people to be proud of their abilities, proud of their work, proud of their accomplishments. Is it? this forum is full of it in the form of blog posts and replies. And it is one of the things that makes it great. By the other hand, social media is also full of people boasting about their accomplishments but more often than not is just marketing.

bluecheese452 3y ago

I read your blog post in order to understand why you might be getting negative reactions. You are coming across off as combative and arrogant. It feels like you are quizzing people on details in order to show you know more than them.

HumanOstrich 3y ago
I disagree. The questions are posed as challenges but are not charged, subjective, or overly pedantic. I also don't see where he's trying to show he knows more than they do in a self-serving way. Some people choose to interpret any challenge as a personal attack. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

bluecheese452 3y ago

To me it was putting “react expert” , “node expert” whatever else expert in quotes that gave it away. It was pretty clear to me that he viewed his role as exposing them as not real experts. And 2 of the people did not understand his questions and he never even tried to clarify or consider that the problem was with his question. “I asked a “React.js expert” to compare different SPA approaches such as direct DOM manipulation, MVC driven client side templating, component-based DOM manipulation and compile-to-vanilla-JS“ I honestly don’t understand what he is asking either. What is compile to vanilla js? Is he talking about compiling typescript to js? And what does that have to do with the dom? Also what is “MVC driven component based dom manipulation”? Like I feel like I am dealing with someone who read some design patterns book and dings anyone who doesn’t use the exact same terms he does. Not someone who has a superior understanding of development.

patrick451 3y ago

This idea of gatekeeping is so cancerous. Nearly every time I see that accusation deployed, there is an implicit assumption that gatekeeping is obviously bad. It's just used as a trump, "you are gatekeeping, so I win". I think this is a ridiculous idea. There's nothing wrong with advocating for a high bar of professionalism, which is essentially what gatekeeping is. I'm very glad that medicine is a gatekept profession when I visit my doctor.