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It's strange that there's a AAA-level FOSS game engine that most of the gamedev community is seemingly just sleeping on. Wonder what glaring downside this engin

It's strange that there's a AAA-level FOSS game engine that most of the gamedev community is seemingly just sleeping on. Wonder what glaring downside this engine has that's keeping everyone away.

meheleventyone 3y ago
I’ve only used CryEngine and back then it was a bit of a mess to use in comparison to the better organised Unreal Engine. It was obviously extremely capable but it had a learning cliff rather than curve. I’m not sure Lumberyard improved on that reputation.
machinekob 3y ago
It was FOSS'ed in 2021 and there is probably extremly small talent pool for people even knowing Lumberyard/O3DE.
jwitthuhn 3y ago
It is somewhat awkward to use because, at least the last time I checked, you need to purchase a wwise license for audio to work.
flohofwoe 3y ago
If you ever had to work with Lumberyard you would understand why ;) The whole thing is a massively big hairball of C++ code that was started in the mid-90's by Crytek as CryEngine and has since gone through multiple hands, all with different opinions on how a game engine should be designed leading to various rewrite attempts. Nothing good can come out of such a situation, this is actually a rare case where starting from scratch would have made more sense.
- Arelius 3y ago
  I agree with you in essence.. Having said that, it basically has nothing in common with the mid-90's code, either in details nor design. It's dysfunction is almost entirely modern by now. Essentially, while CryEngine was a detour and got us where we are more slowly, it's ended up basically where they were aiming for in the original start-from-scratch scenario. There is an argument that the more direct approach may have lead to less turnover and a more coherent engine. But IMO, the dysfunction is more likely the result of systemic problems at Amazon organizationally.
- FoodWThrow 3y ago
  Amazon first wanted to make a game, so they bought Double Helix, a game company. With virtually unlimited budget, they started making a game, until a correction came from high up top that Amazon should actually make an engine, not a game, so that they could collect royalties from other people making games. Double Helix says fine, we can make one in 5-6 years. The plan travels slowly across Amazon, until it hits one particular individual that doesn't like it. Executives then start to look for an engine. First they talk to Unity, which was surprisingly receptive to the idea, but not much happened in the end (should be around 2014, around the time John Riccitiello became CEO). Cue in Crytek and Amazon becoming aware of their financial troubles, and the rest is history. The press release hits, and that's how Double Helix learns of what's going on. Now they are not only supposed to make an engine, but merge the older version of CryEngine as well. That went as well as you would expect. It took them 2 years just to make something workable. O3DE came to being once Amazon realized Lumberyard didn't have any mind-share at all. Nearly no part of the CryEngine code base is left, from my understanding. A lot of the original plan from Double Helix finally materialized in form of Atom, and other gems. Though CryEngine was a major hindrance, and some of its effects can still be felt, O3DE is now its own thing. Still leashed to Amazon mind you, and all their bright minded executives. But at least all of the CryEngine code has been ~~purged~~ removed.
adrift 3y ago
Even their codebase on Github is clunky with 10 folders to get through to see any code.
fotcorn 3y ago
I worked with it quite a bit on my last job, and for me it's really the quality that is not there yet. One example is prefabs: They worked just fine in Lumberyard years ago. The first few releases of O3DE broke them (that was in 2021 I believe), because like almost every other subsystem, Amazon wanted to rewrite it from scratch. Seems like they released the new version in the latest release, but as you can see in this video from Gamesfromscratch, it still doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAuR-pEz1w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAuR-pEz1w Also, they are not great at marketing. For example, in the latest release notes, the main headline talking point is robotics, and not games. I think the tech is actually good, I prefer both the component system and ScriptCanvas over Unreals component mess and Blueprints. It just needs much more polish. And a big game company trying to actually make a game.
dagmx 3y ago
Free doesn’t mean pleasant to use. CryEngine/Lumberyard are quite high friction engines, without much in the way of learning resources and very little high level ergonomics.
Andrex 3y ago
Reminiscent of the animation industry and OpenToonz. Marketing as well as grass roots advocacy of new and shiny things makes Toonz a bit obscure unless you're a little familiar with the industry.

It's strange that there's a AAA-level FOSS game engine that most of the gamedev community is seemingly just sleeping on. Wonder what glaring downside this engine has that's keeping everyone away.

meheleventyone 3y ago

I’ve only used CryEngine and back then it was a bit of a mess to use in comparison to the better organised Unreal Engine. It was obviously extremely capable but it had a learning cliff rather than curve. I’m not sure Lumberyard improved on that reputation.

machinekob 3y ago

It was FOSS'ed in 2021 and there is probably extremly small talent pool for people even knowing Lumberyard/O3DE.

jwitthuhn 3y ago

It is somewhat awkward to use because, at least the last time I checked, you need to purchase a wwise license for audio to work.

flohofwoe 3y ago

If you ever had to work with Lumberyard you would understand why ;) The whole thing is a massively big hairball of C++ code that was started in the mid-90's by Crytek as CryEngine and has since gone through multiple hands, all with different opinions on how a game engine should be designed leading to various rewrite attempts. Nothing good can come out of such a situation, this is actually a rare case where starting from scratch would have made more sense.

Arelius 3y ago
I agree with you in essence.. Having said that, it basically has nothing in common with the mid-90's code, either in details nor design. It's dysfunction is almost entirely modern by now. Essentially, while CryEngine was a detour and got us where we are more slowly, it's ended up basically where they were aiming for in the original start-from-scratch scenario. There is an argument that the more direct approach may have lead to less turnover and a more coherent engine. But IMO, the dysfunction is more likely the result of systemic problems at Amazon organizationally.
FoodWThrow 3y ago
Amazon first wanted to make a game, so they bought Double Helix, a game company. With virtually unlimited budget, they started making a game, until a correction came from high up top that Amazon should actually make an engine, not a game, so that they could collect royalties from other people making games. Double Helix says fine, we can make one in 5-6 years. The plan travels slowly across Amazon, until it hits one particular individual that doesn't like it. Executives then start to look for an engine. First they talk to Unity, which was surprisingly receptive to the idea, but not much happened in the end (should be around 2014, around the time John Riccitiello became CEO). Cue in Crytek and Amazon becoming aware of their financial troubles, and the rest is history. The press release hits, and that's how Double Helix learns of what's going on. Now they are not only supposed to make an engine, but merge the older version of CryEngine as well. That went as well as you would expect. It took them 2 years just to make something workable. O3DE came to being once Amazon realized Lumberyard didn't have any mind-share at all. Nearly no part of the CryEngine code base is left, from my understanding. A lot of the original plan from Double Helix finally materialized in form of Atom, and other gems. Though CryEngine was a major hindrance, and some of its effects can still be felt, O3DE is now its own thing. Still leashed to Amazon mind you, and all their bright minded executives. But at least all of the CryEngine code has been ~~purged~~ removed.

adrift 3y ago

Even their codebase on Github is clunky with 10 folders to get through to see any code.

fotcorn 3y ago

I worked with it quite a bit on my last job, and for me it's really the quality that is not there yet. One example is prefabs: They worked just fine in Lumberyard years ago. The first few releases of O3DE broke them (that was in 2021 I believe), because like almost every other subsystem, Amazon wanted to rewrite it from scratch. Seems like they released the new version in the latest release, but as you can see in this video from Gamesfromscratch, it still doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAuR-pEz1w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAuR-pEz1w Also, they are not great at marketing. For example, in the latest release notes, the main headline talking point is robotics, and not games. I think the tech is actually good, I prefer both the component system and ScriptCanvas over Unreals component mess and Blueprints. It just needs much more polish. And a big game company trying to actually make a game.

dagmx 3y ago

Free doesn’t mean pleasant to use. CryEngine/Lumberyard are quite high friction engines, without much in the way of learning resources and very little high level ergonomics.

Andrex 3y ago

Reminiscent of the animation industry and OpenToonz. Marketing as well as grass roots advocacy of new and shiny things makes Toonz a bit obscure unless you're a little familiar with the industry.