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> That is the difference. People in Gaza also have nowhere to go if they wanted. Exactly, the difference isn't that in the Ukraine war that the Russians are be

by _kbh_ 3y ago

> That is the difference. People in Gaza also have nowhere to go if they wanted. Exactly, the difference isn't that in the Ukraine war that the Russians are being careful or precise, it's that the Ukrainian citizens can actually evacuate from the areas they are in.

thriftwy 3y ago
They won't be if Russia decided to start with a massive air strikes campaign before even starting ground offensive. But that's not happened - not against the apartment blocks, anyway.
- jnsaff2 3y ago
  Really? So you don't remember the bombing of Kyiv where corners of high rise apartment blocks were blown of by rockets and artillery. Or Kharkiv where whole blocks of apartment buildings were demolished by indiscriminate shelling?
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    As a fact, no, I don't. The amount of carnage seen on Palestine photos and videos is not matched. Of you read words written by press, you may get an impression that it is comparable. But you will struggle to find evidence backing it up. Because there is not.
    - jnsaff2 3y ago
      Alright please then: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/frightening-moment-a-missile-hit-a-residential-building-in-kyiv/100864932 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/frightening-moment-a-... Also you seem to be fixed on carnage inflicted to Palestine but not a word about the videos and images of beheadings and wanton murder of Israelis by the hamas terrorists. Why is that? Did not hamas unleash this round of violence by absolutely barbaric attacks?
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        So on display is an apartment block being hit by "a missile". That would be our exhibit A. However, the issue is that exhibit B is whole rows of apartment blocks hollowed out, visibly mangled or even levelled out by Israeli air strikes. This was my original point.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > However, the issue is that exhibit B is whole rows of apartment blocks hollowed out, visibly mangled or even levelled out by Israeli air strikes. It’s like your exactly describing what the Russians did to Bakhmut. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/may/18/stark-before-and-after-images-reveal-the-obliteration-of-bakhmut https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/may/18/stark-b...
        thriftwy 3y ago
        As it was already noticed, it was not due to unannounced airstrikes in Bakhmut but due to ground offensive. Any civilians could and should have been evacuated by then, or at least took cover. If we will seee ground offensive in Gaza, the picture will likely be the same but on larger scale. This is on top of air strikes damage, for which the population in these blocks could not prepare.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > As it was already noticed, it was not due to unannounced airstrikes in Bakhmut but due to ground offensive. Any civilians could and should have been evacuated by then, or at least took cover. Sure, So like the Dnipro apartment block strike that was from a Russian Kh-22 and flattened part of the building. Here's a photo. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Dnipro_after_Russian_missile_attack%2C_2023-01-14_%2804-01%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Dnipro_a...
        thriftwy 3y ago
    - _kbh_ 3y ago
      > As a fact, no, I don't. The amount of carnage seen on Palestine photos and videos is not matched. You’re not looking very hard then. The carnage is identical the Russians have literally leveled entire cities in Ukraine, I dare say the Russians have leveled an area that is overall larger then Gaza in its entirety. This is before we get to the especially brutal parts of Russias war like when they launched an anti ship missile at a shopping centre.
      - thriftwy 3y ago
        Launching "a missile" at a target pales in comparison with a row of apartment blocks levelled by air strikes. And no, ground offensives are not the same. I hope we won't see those in Gaza - there is still chance.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Launching "a missile" at a target pales in comparison with a row of apartment blocks levelled by air strikes. It literally nearly levelled a shopping mall and killed 20+ civilians and injured close to 60. So I guess the real question becomes, are civilian causalities okay or not?, if they are not okay then Russians indiscriminate targeting and killing of civilians in Ukraine is just as bad as Israels. > And no, ground offensives are not the same. I hope we won't see those in Gaza - there is still chance. So if Israel kills civilians in a ground offensive does that make it okay?.
        thriftwy 3y ago
        Ground offensive makes it worse but it's already very bad. Worse than most of the stuff seen in the Russo-Ukrainian. The question is actually a different one: about the collateral damage. But in the case of both Palestine and Israel, that question does not even enter the picture. Both sides show no discretion in killing one other.
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        The kind of restraint that brought us atrocities of Bucha and the childrens torture chambers of Kherson? Murder and genocide has been russian m.o for ever. You can’t downplay this.

by _kbh_ 3y ago

thriftwy 3y ago

They won't be if Russia decided to start with a massive air strikes campaign before even starting ground offensive. But that's not happened - not against the apartment blocks, anyway.

jnsaff2 3y ago
Really? So you don't remember the bombing of Kyiv where corners of high rise apartment blocks were blown of by rockets and artillery. Or Kharkiv where whole blocks of apartment buildings were demolished by indiscriminate shelling?
- thriftwy 3y ago
  As a fact, no, I don't. The amount of carnage seen on Palestine photos and videos is not matched. Of you read words written by press, you may get an impression that it is comparable. But you will struggle to find evidence backing it up. Because there is not.
  - jnsaff2 3y ago
    Alright please then: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/frightening-moment-a-missile-hit-a-residential-building-in-kyiv/100864932 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-26/frightening-moment-a-... Also you seem to be fixed on carnage inflicted to Palestine but not a word about the videos and images of beheadings and wanton murder of Israelis by the hamas terrorists. Why is that? Did not hamas unleash this round of violence by absolutely barbaric attacks?
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      So on display is an apartment block being hit by "a missile". That would be our exhibit A. However, the issue is that exhibit B is whole rows of apartment blocks hollowed out, visibly mangled or even levelled out by Israeli air strikes. This was my original point.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > However, the issue is that exhibit B is whole rows of apartment blocks hollowed out, visibly mangled or even levelled out by Israeli air strikes. It’s like your exactly describing what the Russians did to Bakhmut. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/may/18/stark-before-and-after-images-reveal-the-obliteration-of-bakhmut https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/may/18/stark-b...
        thriftwy 3y ago
        As it was already noticed, it was not due to unannounced airstrikes in Bakhmut but due to ground offensive. Any civilians could and should have been evacuated by then, or at least took cover. If we will seee ground offensive in Gaza, the picture will likely be the same but on larger scale. This is on top of air strikes damage, for which the population in these blocks could not prepare.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > As it was already noticed, it was not due to unannounced airstrikes in Bakhmut but due to ground offensive. Any civilians could and should have been evacuated by then, or at least took cover. Sure, So like the Dnipro apartment block strike that was from a Russian Kh-22 and flattened part of the building. Here's a photo. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Dnipro_after_Russian_missile_attack%2C_2023-01-14_%2804-01%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Dnipro_a...
        thriftwy 3y ago
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > As a fact, no, I don't. The amount of carnage seen on Palestine photos and videos is not matched. You’re not looking very hard then. The carnage is identical the Russians have literally leveled entire cities in Ukraine, I dare say the Russians have leveled an area that is overall larger then Gaza in its entirety. This is before we get to the especially brutal parts of Russias war like when they launched an anti ship missile at a shopping centre.
    - thriftwy 3y ago
      Launching "a missile" at a target pales in comparison with a row of apartment blocks levelled by air strikes. And no, ground offensives are not the same. I hope we won't see those in Gaza - there is still chance.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > Launching "a missile" at a target pales in comparison with a row of apartment blocks levelled by air strikes. It literally nearly levelled a shopping mall and killed 20+ civilians and injured close to 60. So I guess the real question becomes, are civilian causalities okay or not?, if they are not okay then Russians indiscriminate targeting and killing of civilians in Ukraine is just as bad as Israels. > And no, ground offensives are not the same. I hope we won't see those in Gaza - there is still chance. So if Israel kills civilians in a ground offensive does that make it okay?.
        thriftwy 3y ago
        Ground offensive makes it worse but it's already very bad. Worse than most of the stuff seen in the Russo-Ukrainian. The question is actually a different one: about the collateral damage. But in the case of both Palestine and Israel, that question does not even enter the picture. Both sides show no discretion in killing one other.
        jnsaff2 3y ago
        The kind of restraint that brought us atrocities of Bucha and the childrens torture chambers of Kherson? Murder and genocide has been russian m.o for ever. You can’t downplay this.