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The institutions did their jobs. Trump failed to seize power extralegally, despite populist support. The US system of government could be better, but it is func

The institutions did their jobs. Trump failed to seize power extralegally, despite populist support. The US system of government could be better, but it is functional.

nl 3y ago
The institutions didn't do their job. He walked away from an attempted coup with zero consequences to him, and is currently the favorite to challenge at the next election.
- lukas099 3y ago
  There are issues with using the government to prosecute former leaders and the precedent that that sets.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    There are more issues with not prosecuting people for crimes simply because they were in positions which magnify the threat and impact of those crimes, and both states and the federal government have prosecuted former leaders including state governors, state and federal legislators at all levels, state and federal cabinet secretaries, and even US vice presidents in the past. There is neither a Constitutional nor a rational basis for a special unique exemption for past Presidents, and fortunately state and federal prosecutors seem to recognize that.
    - lukas099 3y ago
      Yeah it can be done, but it's not completely unproblematic.
      - dragonwriter 3y ago
        No, it really is completely unproblematic; "But", you might ask, "what if a current leader does so as partisan retaliation, is not constrained by other forces, and starts of a chain of retaliation against past leaders?" Sure, but using criminal process or any other power of office to punish partisan enemies is a problem whether or not the target is a past leader; there's no special danger around past leaders. if anything, there is less danger around past or current high government officials in general, and past Presidents in particular, because of the extraordinary degree to which those persons tend to be visible and well-connected politically.
        lukas099 3y ago
        That's a good point
- yaksha 3y ago
  There are multiple court cases active against Trump and even his lawyers for advising him. He's recently been barred from speaking on certain topics as a result of those cases. These are absolutely consequences, in my opinion.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > The institutions didn't do their job. He walked away from an attempted coup with zero consequences to him, Indictments on 91 felony charges across three different sovereignties in four different proceedings is...not what most people would describe as zero consequences. (Also, there are several other active state criminal investigations relating to the fraudulent electors scheme, some of which have produced criminal charges against other people and any of which could very easily also result in further indictments for Trump.)
  - nl 3y ago
    It's October 2023. The attempted coup was January 2021. While I believe in due process, justice delayed is not justice. And the body that should have sanctioned him (the elected government) voted down any punishment.

The institutions did their jobs. Trump failed to seize power extralegally, despite populist support. The US system of government could be better, but it is functional.

nl 3y ago

The institutions didn't do their job. He walked away from an attempted coup with zero consequences to him, and is currently the favorite to challenge at the next election.

lukas099 3y ago
There are issues with using the government to prosecute former leaders and the precedent that that sets.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  There are more issues with not prosecuting people for crimes simply because they were in positions which magnify the threat and impact of those crimes, and both states and the federal government have prosecuted former leaders including state governors, state and federal legislators at all levels, state and federal cabinet secretaries, and even US vice presidents in the past. There is neither a Constitutional nor a rational basis for a special unique exemption for past Presidents, and fortunately state and federal prosecutors seem to recognize that.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    Yeah it can be done, but it's not completely unproblematic.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      No, it really is completely unproblematic; "But", you might ask, "what if a current leader does so as partisan retaliation, is not constrained by other forces, and starts of a chain of retaliation against past leaders?" Sure, but using criminal process or any other power of office to punish partisan enemies is a problem whether or not the target is a past leader; there's no special danger around past leaders. if anything, there is less danger around past or current high government officials in general, and past Presidents in particular, because of the extraordinary degree to which those persons tend to be visible and well-connected politically.
      - lukas099 3y ago
        That's a good point
yaksha 3y ago
There are multiple court cases active against Trump and even his lawyers for advising him. He's recently been barred from speaking on certain topics as a result of those cases. These are absolutely consequences, in my opinion.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> The institutions didn't do their job. He walked away from an attempted coup with zero consequences to him, Indictments on 91 felony charges across three different sovereignties in four different proceedings is...not what most people would describe as zero consequences. (Also, there are several other active state criminal investigations relating to the fraudulent electors scheme, some of which have produced criminal charges against other people and any of which could very easily also result in further indictments for Trump.)
- nl 3y ago
  It's October 2023. The attempted coup was January 2021. While I believe in due process, justice delayed is not justice. And the body that should have sanctioned him (the elected government) voted down any punishment.